ill be your friend
Just Looking for a little emotional support/perspective
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@somedumbguy Mate you got to talk to your brother if she is okay having you around.
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@JonnnyM that's been done a number of times. seems the me being around thing isn't an issue. Thanks for taking a gander and taking the time to comment! appreciate it!
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@somedumbguy then idk maybe avoiding her for the time being giving her and yourself some space is the best thing you can do. Also are you sure it's not a problem for them or do they not wanna be rude and tell you to leave
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@Fana you're very kind :)
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@JonnnyM it's complicated. I think me and my brother are completely cool with the situation. sis-in-law I also believe is usually happy to have me around. I helped out with the kids this trip back in ways that no one else could. When I got back stateside this time she actually cried and hugged and thanked me for coming back.
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@JonnnyM time and space thing is currently being exercised
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@somedumbguy well, I believe there are always two sides to every story... but since you need some comfort too after having to explain everything to your sis-in-law but still end up with disagreement, I would say that you remain calm and put aside all your emotions to avoid further misunderstandings. Control your anger too and try to resolve it in the right time, not for now but sooner. Because as you know both of you are too emotional at the moment.
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@Dang-girl thanks. yea - absolutely two sides to every story.
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@somedumbguy as for my thought, maybe you raised your voice while talking . Women, seems sensitive at times...like instead of understanding the situation they would rather try to win an argument and play victim. Lol
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@Dang-girl yea - that's true. it's complex. we actually recorded the 2nd half the conversation. There's a lot of history at play that I couldn't really get into. One of things I found out during the conversation is she essentially has decided on what I must be feeling and my own reasons for my words and behaviors - explaining to her how I feel / think and why I say / do what I say and do is rejected... or in some cases my trying to correct the inaccurate dialogue she's carrying on with herself about what I must have been feeling/thinking which caused whatever behavior/words I said is considered to be gaslighting
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@somedumbguy just let time do the mending for now man. You're hurt and she's hurt too, i guess. If she take the initiative to open up first and talk about those misunderstandings , you can perhaps try to resolve it together (Which I think she wouldn't do that?but who knows). Reality is.. We all have a pride to protect Lol.. so yeah, just buy ample time to reflect and be willing to apologize in time if you realize that you have your own share of mistake.
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I don't have a single clue how the message you tried to send was misinterpreted, you really are expressive and open with what you feel. Don't exasperate, all this... chaos has originated from miscommunication, there is no evil intent. I would give it some time and then attempt to explain the whole situation, what you truly meant to say.
As for the lie and betrayal from her side, I know it is infuriating. I would totally lose my interest to even live close to someone who would grab your hand just to drag you in the hole they are. However, give them the benefit of the doubt, settle all of this with a conversation, you have to understand her perspective as well. What you said must have striked her insecurities, otherwise I couldn't explain myself why there is so much bad blood from some remarks that could be taken as condescending, it truly is folly to entirely deny someone close over that. -
@OLIAG Well articulated! I literally feel how calm and composed you are while typing this, man...
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@OLIAG thanks for that. much appreciated!
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@OLIAG said in Just Looking for a little emotional support/perspective:
I would totally lose my interest to even live close to someone who would grab your hand just to drag you in the hole they are.
it truly is folly to entirely deny someone close over that.
Found those two thoughts resonated with me strongly. dragging me into her hole - brilliantly weaved good sir/maddam!!
Generally agreed about miscommunication - had to let the anger about the lying dissipate before I could revisit and emotionally accept that fully.
I believe you're spot on with the insecurities - again lots at play that is impractical to share here.. without writing a novel. The best way I've found to put all the pieces together is that it may all be about self-protection on her side...
Her exaggerating/hyperbolizing/fabricating has been known and acknowledged by her and both my family and hers for quite some time..
I don't think I've mentioned the, how to put it. She'll sometimes push a discussion/argument in a direction wherein she's beyond reproach.
For example an argument about how to cook eggs becomes a matter of women's rights.. or an argument about whether or not to run the dishwasher after you've emptied out the sink or to wait until it's full becomes about racial justice. (We're all white or white mixed fyi).
She'll then occupy the position of social justice warrior for either cause and you're left in the position of being judged an enemy of that cause if you voice an opinion in opposition to hers. "I just think we should save water and run it when it's full" = I'm a hater of women that should be ashamed of myself.
I would much rather just ask her her own thoughts about these things than speculate/mind read from the outside. For now I think I'll have to make peace with the fact that that probably isn't possible - first have to figure out how to get on the same page on reality (I'd wager a dispassionate explanation of this reality, corroborated by those she herself cares about/respects would be met with denial and or a emphatic claim that we are all gaslighting her)
It's been a week - I've softly resolved, should she engage me on the topic again, to give up on getting an understanding of me on her side of the fence for now. I think the best chance of having a productive conversation with her would be for me/us to solely focus on understanding her.. her perspective on events that have transpired, her thoughts and feelings around those events, and her own understanding of herself. Be validation incarnate.
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@somedumbguy @Dang-girl Glad you appreciated my frame of mind!
It is, indeed, a nightmare to deal with difficult people, especially if you cannot find any reasoning beneath their actions. The other day, I was called toxic for showing disapproval to someone's opinion, despite the fact that all I have said was expressed in a proper manner. I kept thinking and reiterating the conversation and I couldn't find what word choices were unfit. Then I remembered this one quote from Nicholas Humphrey, "To speak the truth among people who do not want to hear it is considered almost an aggressive act – an invasion of privacy, a trespass into someone else's space. Not nice, not done...". If she is resilient enough to reject any thoughts coming from external sources, try making her find the answer from the inside.
Do not consume yourself with such fights - this is not the first and I can very much guarantee that it will not be the last either. Instead, cherish the moments you can. We all are blinded by these very moments of pride, where it takes over and we instantly feel the urge to slash through the skin and flesh of those we cared and had so much appreciation for a while back. Might have been her catalyst to lie and betray, might be your way to focus on her flaws and not the moments you liked her presence.
I clearly am not an advocating for letting such an incident fade away without getting to a clear explanation, for there's always something to learn through them. Yet there is enough poison in the world, it doesn't need ours. I still am curious to know what phrases were misinterpreted and what they meant to her. -
@OLIAG Opinion often consumes the minds of people, and they are so fixated on their point of view that they don’t see how someone else could express a different one. So it's also best to look at the situation from their perspective and think about why they may believe in or support the things that they do.
I guess this belongs to you...
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@OLIAG I guess the easiest example of a misinterpreted phrase was "I advocate and defend you around other people" expressed empathetically being interpreted as an attack as opposed to an attempt to bring us to the same side of the table... instead of on opposite sides.
I think that quote you mentioned is quite relevant. I spoke with my therapist about the whole shpeal and one of her more salient points was.. don't challenge a delusional persons delusions..
It's all good for the timebeing. Though painful, I did learn more about her from the exchange.. and although I was rebuffed at every turn I believe she at least understands some of my perspective more clearly even if she completely rejects it.
Thanks again for taking the time to engage this and reply thoughtfully!!
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@Dang-girl I've found in my experience that that and many other barriers (defensiveness, misunderstanding, catastrophizing, mindreading, name calling, etc) to good communication grow and shrink in severity in congruence with the intensity of unmoderated emotion being experienced by the barrier producing party.
I've experienced it both as the offending party - producing those barriers.. the more emotional and unchecked I am the more likely I am to create obstacles and as a receiver of said obstacles
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Well @somedumbguy, I resonate a lot with your story, although mine had a very different outcome given I wasn't as wise as you since I was younger and prideful. But the thing I feel would maybe help you better cope with this feeling of betrayal and misunderstanding is that when people tend to be super defensive and see everything as a possible attack often means they are dealing with a lot of suppressed guilt and shame. I dont know the story of your sister in law, and its not even necessary. What you said, given that you sounded honest and sincere, sound like someone having to deal with a person that is somewhat lost in their own fantasies and insecurities, and cannot handle the slightest sign of criticism and antagonism, since she might be dealing with that inside her own head 24. This has proven true in my case, and I do not resent my sister in law or my brother, since I know they are plagued by guilt in general. Projection of expectations.
