Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational
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@petrapark3r said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
But it still seems like a good starting point for a conversation doesn't it?
I always love the way you bring these religious ideas to site that's 90% a rat-up-a-drainpipe hook-up zone.
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@Indrid-Cold said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
@petrapark3r said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
But it still seems like a good starting point for a conversation doesn't it?
I always love the way you bring these religious ideas to site that's 90% a rat-up-a-drainpipe hook-up zone.
:grin: Gutter philosophy, I like it! Thank you :heart:
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@petrapark3r said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
Atheism assumes that God is not real, and claims to be entirely rational. But that second part about, being entirely rational, can be proven to be wrong, simply by thinking it through just once:
@petrapark3r As far as I know Atheists are more intelligent and smart than theists. I'm not saying this without any reliable source. I have included those sources for you. A new paper published in frontiers in psychology which describes belief in god is associated with lower scores on IQ test
Source 1
Source2
If atheism was irrational, their followers should have lower IQ than that of theistsSo lets assume there is no God. Then the universe at some point just popped into existence right? Of course not. That wouldn't make any sense now would it?
There are so many theories other than bigbang one. Nobody exactly knows how universe came into existence.
Some scientest might throw in, that the universe itself might be a fluctuation of a quantum field, or simply one of many universes popping out of whatever they pop out.
And of course they could be right, and of course my question to them remains the same: Then did this something that the universe popped out of just suddenly pop into existence? Of course not, that wouldn't make any sense either.
Lets assume god created the universe according to bible's genesis, God needed 6 days to create the universe but he did rest on 7th day though. What kind of almighty creator needs rest ? One more thing, a day is the time needed for Earth to complete one rotation on its axis. So how days passed if Earth and Sun were not created yet? How did he measured this time?
Then this must mean, that this nature (or space or quantum field or whatever unfathomable thing the universe popped out of) has always been there, has always existed, eternally. Existence itself must be eternal then, if it wasn't created by an eternal God. Think it through well. There is no third option, so much is for sure...
Now lets construct an example, that is able to make us see the problem here properly: Imagine you borrowed a bike from your friend. And this friend had borrowed it from another friend. And this guy again borrowed it. And so on and so forth. The bike was given from one person to the next. Reaching back through history, through time.
If everything must have a cause, then God
must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the
same nature as the Hindu's view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, "How about the tortoise?" the Indian said,
"Suppose we change the subject." The argument is really no better than that. There is no reason why the world could not have come into being without a cause; nor, on the other
hand, is there any reason why it should not have always existed. There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all. The idea that things must have a beginning
is really due to the poverty of our imagination.Let's not complicate things by assuming there was a big bang for the sake of the example though. Let's just assume that this universe itself is eternal and not the quantum field it popped out of.
So since the universe is eternal (and the bike symbolizes existence itself), this chain stretches into the past, without end... It is equally eternal. Now, answer this question: Why is there a bike? How can it always be borrowed, if there is no original owner?
This can be answered with cause-effect reasoning. A cause-effect relationship is a relationship in which one event (the cause) makes another event happen (the effect). One cause can have several effects. Assuming again god created this universe, universe is the product of him. Every product like a house, is the work of an agent therefore the world which is a product, must have an agent or creator who is called god. But we know this inference is inconclusive, because the one of the premise 'the world is a product' is doubtful. How is it proved that the world is a product? It can't be said that the world is a product because it has parts. Wherever we perceive anything being produced, the producer or the agent is found to work on the material with his limbs. God is said to be bodiless. How can he then work on matter to produce the world?
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@Urfi said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
@petrapark3r As far as I know Atheists are more intelligent and smart than theists. I'm not saying this without any reliable source. I have included those sources for you. A new paper published in frontiers in psychology which describes belief in god is associated with lower scores on IQ test
Source 1
Source2
If atheism was irrational, their followers should have lower IQ than that of theistsI too always assumed that in this day and age there would be more intelligent people on the side of the atheists than of the theists. Thank you for giving me some data :smile: . However in all the millenia before us, this was not the case, and there is no reason to assume, that it must be in the future. Also, most people have not thought this one here through properly, most people haven't really understood it. Heck most people haven't even heard of it. (It is the cosmological way to God according to Thomas of Aquinus). I wonder if those numbers would still be the same if everyone had understood these things... But yeah, it is no proof.
There are so many theories other than bigbang one. Nobody exactly knows how universe came into existence.
And as you should have seen, I was not assuming that they know. But let me add, that there is a consensus about the big bang. There is almost no scientist who doesn't agree with this theory. The question they are not sure about is what was before (and what before even means, since time seems to have begun with the big bang).
Lets assume god created the universe according to bible's genesis, God needed 6 days to create the universe but he did rest on 7th day though. What kind of almighty creator needs rest ? One more thing, a day is the time needed for Earth to complete one rotation on its axis. So how days passed if Earth and Sun were not created yet? How did he measured this time?
Why would you even assume, that I'd take the bible literally? That indeed would be a lack of intelligence (sorry to everyone who does) for the following reason: Genesis actually contains two accounts of how the earth was created (see my post for further info).
If everything must have a cause, then God
must have a cause.Reason has to conclude that there must be one thing that has no cause...
If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God
...which is either God or the world.
, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the
same nature as the Hindu's view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, "How about the tortoise?" the Indian said,
"Suppose we change the subject." The argument is really no better than that.Yes it is. Because what can be its own cause? What in the world could be its own reason? Can the world really be its own reason? Wouldn't this make the world godly?
Even if you would disagree with what those questions imply, this is still a bit more than just an elephant on a turtoise.
There is no reason why the world could not have come into being without a cause;
There is absolutely any reason to assume that there should be nothing and no reason at all to assume that the world could have come into being without a cause or without even the possibility of coming into being. Things don't just happen. That idea is more than just irrational...
nor, on the other
hand, is there any reason why it should not have always existed. There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all. The idea that things must have a beginning
is really due to the poverty of our imagination.You are right, you can assume that the world is eternal. And yes, it is due to our inability to understand the nature of this one first reason. It will forever remain non-understandable to us, for this is how reason works. And this is the definition of the word irrational: it makes no sense to our reason (latin: ratio).
Which is exactly the point of the argument I am making.
And it is not a question of who is more intelligent. Every atheist will agree that this conundrum is indeed irrational, once she understands what I am talking about. It's just like with mathematics: you have to agree that 1+2 = 2. Before you understood it, you might not have agreed, but once you understand it, you have no choice.
And I mean what should they do about it? They have two irrational choices, believe in God or an eternal irrational world. Of course they'd chose what their peers chose: atheism...
This can be answered with cause-effect reasoning. A cause-effect relationship is a relationship in which one event (the cause) makes another event happen (the effect). One cause can have several effects. Assuming again god created this universe, universe is the product of him. Every product like a house, is the work of an agent therefore the world which is a product, must have an agent or creator who is called god. But we know this inference is inconclusive, because the one of the premise 'the world is a product' is doubtful. How is it proved that the world is a product? It can't be said that the world is a product because it has parts. Wherever we perceive anything being produced, the producer or the agent is found to work on the material with his limbs.
We don't have to bring the idea of product into this. The world is a causal thing. Look out the window. Everything happens for a reason. Trees grow, because a seed once fell into the gorund and the sun gives its energy. The argument has nothing to do with wether the world is a product or not. Causality is enough, and causality is real.
God is said to be bodiless. How can he then work on matter to produce the world?
Yeah, God is also irrational. We cannot understand how he could work on matter. Just as we cannot understand a world that created itself or has no reason.
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@petrapark3r hi, I only came here to point out that “Pet” in French means fart.
G’dday (:
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@WtfJudith said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
@petrapark3r hi, I only came here to point out that “Pet” in French means fart.
G’dday (:
This must be one long brain fart of mine then :joy:
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@petrapark3r What you just tried to do is "prove" that atheism is irrational by using irrational claims yourself though.. Difference between science and religion is that science actually does something regarding to that question while religion stayed the same ever since, not moving at all in any direction.
I would rather use and follow logical arguments and be called atheist instead of believing in words and book that human wrote back in the days when the level of knowledge and evidence was at its lowest and rational ignorance was at the highest.
To me, it seems that you're questioning science as a whole and trying to prove that there is God. There are different types of scientists today, they have different hypothesis and they work hard to either conclude if they are true or false, on the other hand, what do religious people do? On every "who, what, when, where, why" they will say: "it was God and it shouldn't be questioned" and that's it. - complete ignorance and disrespect to science, the same science that made this world a better place with all the innovations and changes.
Science works with things that look irrational at first and through different actions it finds explanations and evidence for it, while religion is built on irrationality and follows it fully while neglecting every counterevidence that can be tested in space and time. If God exists, who created him? I guess another God. I respect religious people and their opinions, as long as they don't try to neglect science and use theories that science works with just to claim that scientists don't know anything and that they are irrational. -
@What-is-this said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
@petrapark3r What you just tried to do is "prove" that atheism is irrational by using irrational claims yourself though..
Well no, I used rational claims.
Difference between science and religion is that science actually does something regarding to that question while religion stayed the same ever since, not moving at all in any direction.
I would rather use and follow logical arguments and be called atheist instead of believing in words and book that human wrote back in the days when the level of knowledge and evidence was at its lowest and rational ignorance was at the highest.I too very much prefer to follow logical arguments than simply believing words in a book – or a science journal for that matter. I mean even the most well known scientific journals tend to tell you these days that your sexual identity is completely unrelated to your biology. And that is just nonsense.
To me, it seems that you're questioning science as a whole and trying to prove that there is God. There are different types of scientists today, they have different hypothesis and they work hard to either conclude if they are true or false, on the other hand, what do religious people do? On every "who, what, when, where, why" they will say: "it was God and it shouldn't be questioned" and that's it. - complete ignorance and disrespect to science, the same science that made this world a better place with all the innovations and changes.
You know I'm glad that you have brought this up. The scientific method in its essence as experiment, deduction and its reliance on reason was developed in its beginning in catholic (and anglican) universities. This is no wonder since the catholic church has always always argumented, that faith must go along with reason, and that you can indeed reason about the world and reason about faith.
Science does neither prove nor disprove that there is a God. This question is simply outside of its domain. You on the other hand are contradicting rationality by conflating science with atheism. You don't know its boundaries and its focus on the natural world.
Science works with things that look irrational at first and through different actions it finds explanations and evidence for it, while religion is built on irrationality and follows it fully while neglecting every counterevidence that can be tested in space and time.
As I said before the teaching of the catholic church was always built on rationality. Of course science is a process, which means you'll need to get closer and closer to the truth, step by step, so you cannot expect people from 2000 years ago to have known what we know today. And of course many catholics failed to think rationally, as do many atheists (and of course religious people) today. Thinking rationally is quite the demanding task and not everybody is capable of it sadly. But the scientific process is entirely rational and that is why I love science!
If God exists, who created him? I guess another God.
It is funny, because that is kind of my argument, but turned around. If the world exists, who created it? The world itself? Is the world its own cause?
I respect religious people and their opinions, as long as they don't try to neglect science and use theories that science works with just to claim that scientists don't know anything and that they are irrational.
I did not claim that scientists are irrational, I claimed that atheism is irrational. Please stop conflating science with atheism, those are 2 different things.
Actually I do claim that many scientists are irrational. But the really good ones are in fact not, be they atheists or not... Einstein for example did believe in God. You might know one of his famous quotes:
"God doesn't throw dice"
(meaning there is no such thing as chance)
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@petrapark3r said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
@Urfi said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
@petrapark3r As far as I know Atheists are more intelligent and smart than theists. I'm not saying this without any reliable source. I have included those sources for you. A new paper published in frontiers in psychology which describes belief in god is associated with lower scores on IQ test
Source 1
Source2
If atheism was irrational, their followers should have lower IQ than that of theistsI too always assumed that in this day and age there would be more intelligent people on the side of the atheists than of the theists.
Thank you for giving me some data :smile: .
No problem at all :)
However in all the millenia before us, this was not the case, and there is no reason to assume, that it must be in the future. Also, most people have not thought this one here through properly, most people haven't really understood it. Heck most people haven't even heard of it. (It is the cosmological way to God according to Thomas of Aquinus).
Many of theists assume atheists have never read bible or any philosopher's argument. But they are wrong 100%. Unlike theism, atheism is never based on instincts. They have risen above it. Coming to your question, I can even write an essay on St. Thomas Aquinus. I studied western and Indian philosophy 3 years ago. I'm recalling it :). Summa Theologica was work of Aquinus. He elaborated five proofs for the existence of God in his work. Also, writing St. before his name would be more respectful
I wonder if those numbers would still be the same if everyone had understood these things... But yeah, it is no proof.
It does not make any sense because you have just a mindset.
There are so many theories other than bigbang one. Nobody exactly knows how universe came into existence.
And as you should have seen, I was not assuming that they know. But let me add, that there is a consensus about the big bang. There is almost no scientist who doesn't agree with this theory. The question they are not sure about is what was before (and what before even means, since time seems to have begun with the big bang).
Lets assume god created the universe according to bible's genesis, God needed 6 days to create the universe but he did rest on 7th day though. What kind of almighty creator needs rest ? One more thing, a day is the time needed for Earth to complete one rotation on its axis. So how days passed if Earth and Sun were not created yet? How did he measured this time?
Why would you even assume, that I'd take the bible literally? That indeed would be a lack of intelligence (sorry to everyone who does)
Here you are being hypocrite. Why should we assume universe without god's existence ? An assumption is called supposition or Guess. An intelligent man would always write both guesses.
- Assuming God didn't create the universe - You assumed this one
- Assuming God created the universe - I assumed this one.
for the following reason: Genesis actually contains two accounts of how the earth was created (see my post for further info).
I saw your post about genesis but it couldn't answer my questions. He completed his work in 7 days and did rest for one day. What kind of rest did the almighty creator want ? Your genesis was unable to elaborate anything about planets. How did he count 7 days without knowing anything about day and night ?
If everything must have a cause, then God
must have a cause.Reason has to conclude that there must be one thing that has no cause...
This chain will never end up because one thing too should have a cause
If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God
...which is either God or the world.
, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the
same nature as the Hindu's view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, "How about the tortoise?" the Indian said,
"Suppose we change the subject." The argument is really no better than that.Yes it is. Because what can be its own cause?
What in the world could be its own reason?
Can the world really be its own reason?Surely it cannot be the reason of itself.
Wouldn't this make the world godly?
If he was the root cause of all things, we couldn't perceive daily that many objects like houses, pots etc ain't produced by God. We observe that many human beings like masons and even lower animals like ants and bees act together harmoniously to build objects like palaces, ant-hills and hives. This doesn't make world godly
Even if you would disagree with what those questions imply, this is still a bit more than just an elephant on a turtoise.
Again, this chain will never end up.
There is no reason why the world could not have come into being without a cause;
There is absolutely any reason to assume that there should be nothing and no reason at all to assume that the world could have come into being without a cause or without even the possibility of coming into being. Things don't just happen. That idea is more than just irrational...
nor, on the other
hand, is there any reason why it should not have always existed. There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all. The idea that things must have a beginning
is really due to the poverty of our imagination.You are right, you can assume that the world is eternal. And yes, it is due to our inability to understand the nature of this one first reason. It will forever remain non-understandable to us, for this is how reason works. And this is the definition of the word irrational: it makes no sense to our reason (latin: ratio).
Which is exactly the point of the argument I am making.
And it is not a question of who is more intelligent. Every atheist will agree that this conundrum is indeed irrational, once she understands what I am talking about. It's just like with mathematics: you have to agree that 1+2 = 2. Before you understood it, you might not have agreed, but once you understand it, you have no choice.
And I mean what should they do about it? They have two irrational choices, believe in God or an eternal irrational world. Of course they'd chose what their peers chose: atheism...
They have choice of perception which you never included
This can be answered with cause-effect reasoning. A cause-effect relationship is a relationship in which one event (the cause) makes another event happen (the effect). One cause can have several effects. Assuming again god created this universe, universe is the product of him. Every product like a house, is the work of an agent therefore the world which is a product, must have an agent or creator who is called god. But we know this inference is inconclusive, because the one of the premise 'the world is a product' is doubtful. How is it proved that the world is a product? It can't be said that the world is a product because it has parts. Wherever we perceive anything being produced, the producer or the agent is found to work on the material with his limbs.
We don't have to bring the idea of product into this. The world is a causal thing. Look out the window. Everything happens for a reason. Trees grow, because a seed once fell into the gorund and the sun gives its energy. The argument has nothing to do with wether the world is a product or not. Causality is enough, and causality is real.
Whether*
We have to bring this one as well. An Indian theist branch 'Nyaya' holds this argument of cause-effect reasoning for proving the existence of God.God is said to be bodiless. How can he then work on matter to produce the world?
Yeah, God is also irrational. We cannot understand how he could work on matter. Just as we cannot understand a world that created itself or has no reason.
At least we can trust on our perception because it is the only reliable source remained. It can elaborate who created this universe.
My logic allows me to write some prepositions-
- Everyhting has a creator
- God is that creator
Illogical conclusion- God does not have a creator (it fails because it violates its own premise here )
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@Urfi said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
Many of theists assume atheists have never read bible or any philosopher's argument. But they are wrong 100%. Unlike theism, atheism is never based on instincts. They have risen above it. Coming to your question, I can even write an essay on St. Thomas Aquinus. I studied western and Indian philosophy 3 years ago. I'm recalling it :). Summa Theologica was work of Aquinus. He elaborated five proofs for the existence of God in his work. Also, writing St. before his name would be more respectful
Indeed it would have been, thank you for reminding me :smile:
Actually most atheists at least in the west have no philosophical education, they are normal people just like those who go to church often don't really understand theology. But I assume it is different in india (assuming that is where you are from).
I wonder if those numbers would still be the same if everyone had understood these things... But yeah, it is no proof.
It does not make any sense because you have just a mindset.I'm just wondering if it would be different, that's all. I mean education does influence opinion :shrug:
Lets assume god created the universe according to bible's genesis, God needed 6 days to create the universe but he did rest on 7th day though. What kind of almighty creator needs rest ? One more thing, a day is the time needed for Earth to complete one rotation on its axis. So how days passed if Earth and Sun were not created yet? How did he measured this time?
Why would you even assume, that I'd take the bible literally? That indeed would be a lack of intelligence (sorry to everyone who does)
Here you are being hypocrite. Why should we assume universe without god's existence ? An assumption is called supposition or Guess. An intelligent man would always write both guesses.
- Assuming God didn't create the universe - You assumed this one
- Assuming God created the universe - I assumed this one.
I don't understand why you mention this here. I was saying that taking the bible literally in this sense (assuming God created the world in 7 earth days) would be a lack of intelligence, or maybe a lazyness of thinking, on my part, since taking it literally in this sense is already contradictory because of the existence of two contradicting generation stories in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.
for the following reason: Genesis actually contains two accounts of how the earth was created (see my post for further info).
I saw your post about genesis but it couldn't answer my questions. He completed his work in 7 days and did rest for one day. What kind of rest did the almighty creator want ? Your genesis was unable to elaborate anything about planets. How did he count 7 days without knowing anything about day and night ?
What I meant by not reading Genesis literally is that I don't take the 7 days to be literal days of any kind. I take these as symbolic. For example the fact, that the first thing that God creates is light. This doesn't make any sense from a scientific viewpoint, and the people who lived back then had the same IQ level as us (if we believe the scientific consensus on human development). It must have been obvious even to them, that the sun is in fact the origin of light. Actually there are enough ancient texts that show that people did in fact understand this. So why in the world would God create light before the sun or the stars?
The answer is, that this is the light of reason, of understanding, of truth. If you want to understand where I'm coming from I recommend Dr. Jordan Peterson's lecturs on the psychological significance of the bible.
This in turn means, that also the other days are to be understand symbolically. It shows how God ordered everything, not just the things he created but also the time. All of Genesis speaks about God's relation to His creation and specifically His relation to us and our relation to Him and our relation to creation. God orders our life according to the order of days. This is what it is about.
The sabbath is the holy day, it is the day of service to the Lord. It is on this day, that we pray most, and that we rest. And God does enjoy this love we bring Him on the seventh day. And if you enjoy something you can really relax.
So as you can see, all of Genesis is really about the relationship between God and us. Not about how the earth was created in a literal sense.
If everything must have a cause, then God
must have a cause.Reason has to conclude that there must be one thing that has no cause...
This chain will never end up because one thing too should have a cause
This is the central question. Every element in the chain has the one element before it as cause, as reason for being there. But what reason does the whole chain have? There is no rational answer to this question. This is the point of the whole argument.
If God is not the root cause of the chain, then the chain is endless. But saying that the chain is endless does not absolve it from needing a cause to exist in the first place. Human reason demands this, we cannot think any other way. So if the chain was indeed endless (which is the only alternative to God being the root cause) then it would not make sense to reason, it would be irrational.
What in the world could be its own reason?
Can the world really be its own reason?Surely it cannot be the reason of itself.
Wouldn't this make the world godly?
If he was the root cause of all things, we couldn't perceive daily that many objects like houses, pots etc ain't produced by God.
By what argument do you assume, that if God was the root cause, there could not be any houses?
We observe that many human beings like masons and even lower animals like ants and bees act together harmoniously to build objects like palaces, ant-hills and hives. This doesn't make world godly
Ants are not their own reason, they are there because of evolution (assuming evolution theory is correct). The harmony has developed. But everything in nature has a reason that is before it. Everything is caused. If the world however is not caused it must be its own reason. This is what could give it a godly nature.
Even if you would disagree with what those questions imply, this is still a bit more than just an elephant on a turtoise.
Again, this chain will never end up.
The point is that God is his own reason and his own cause and since this is not understandable to our mind, He is irrational.
However to say this about the world (being its own reason and being its own cause), which is the only alternative, sounds quite strange. And it means the world would be non-understandable, irrational.
There is no reason why the world could not have come into being without a cause;
There is absolutely any reason to assume that there should be nothing and no reason at all to assume that the world could have come into being without a cause or without even the possibility of coming into being. Things don't just happen. That idea is more than just irrational...
nor, on the other
hand, is there any reason why it should not have always existed. There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all. The idea that things must have a beginning
is really due to the poverty of our imagination.You are right, you can assume that the world is eternal. And yes, it is due to our inability to understand the nature of this one first reason. It will forever remain non-understandable to us, for this is how reason works. And this is the definition of the word irrational: it makes no sense to our reason (latin: ratio).
Which is exactly the point of the argument I am making.
And it is not a question of who is more intelligent. Every atheist will agree that this conundrum is indeed irrational, once she understands what I am talking about. It's just like with mathematics: you have to agree that 1+2 = 2. Before you understood it, you might not have agreed, but once you understand it, you have no choice.
And I mean what should they do about it? They have two irrational choices, believe in God or an eternal irrational world. Of course they'd chose what their peers chose: atheism...
They have choice of perception which you never included
What do you mean by this?
I concede that there is a third choice: Agnosticism. Which means not believing that there is a God but saying you cannot know. In my opinion this is actually the only real alternative to believing that God exists.
This can be answered with cause-effect reasoning. A cause-effect relationship is a relationship in which one event (the cause) makes another event happen (the effect). One cause can have several effects. Assuming again god created this universe, universe is the product of him. Every product like a house, is the work of an agent therefore the world which is a product, must have an agent or creator who is called god. But we know this inference is inconclusive, because the one of the premise 'the world is a product' is doubtful. How is it proved that the world is a product? It can't be said that the world is a product because it has parts. Wherever we perceive anything being produced, the producer or the agent is found to work on the material with his limbs.
We don't have to bring the idea of product into this. The world is a causal thing. Look out the window. Everything happens for a reason. Trees grow, because a seed once fell into the gorund and the sun gives its energy. The argument has nothing to do with wether the world is a product or not. Causality is enough, and causality is real.
We have to bring this one as well. An Indian theist branch 'Nyaya' holds this argument of cause-effect reasoning for proving the existence of God.
I do agree it is worth considering. But I do not understand why it is necessary to consider it in the context of above argument. Please elaborate.
God is said to be bodiless. How can he then work on matter to produce the world?
Yeah, God is also irrational. We cannot understand how he could work on matter. Just as we cannot understand a world that created itself or has no reason.
At least we can trust on our perception because it is the only reliable source remained. It can elaborate who created this universe.
Perception is a funny thing and there could be said a lot about wether it is trustworthy or not. But lets assume we can rely on it. As you can see causality is an observable thing. It is the basis for my argument. Thus from this basis I concluded toward the reason for existence.
My logic allows me to write some prepositions-
- Everyhting has a creator
- God is that creator
Illogical conclusion- God does not have a creator (it fails because it violates its own premise here )
Yes, the fact that God is His own reason, is not understandable by our rational minds. And neither is a causal chain without any reason for existing. There simply is no rational answer to the question of why there is anything.
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@petrapark3r hey
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@Urfi said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
@petrapark3r As far as I know Atheists are more intelligent and smart than theists. I'm not saying this without any reliable source. I have included those sources for you. A new paper published in frontiers in psychology which describes belief in god is associated with lower scores on IQ test
Source 1
Source2
If atheism was irrational, their followers should have lower IQ than that of theists@Urfi said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
Here you are being hypocrite. Why should we assume universe without god's existence ? An assumption is called supposition or Guess. An intelligent man would always write both guesses.
- Assuming God didn't create the universe - You assumed this one
- Assuming God created the universe - I assumed this one.
I did not write both assumptions, because the goal of my article was to show that the atheistic viewpoint (not the atheistic person) was irrational. Why do I have to include the other possibility in my article to be intelligent?
I have been thinking about what you wrote and realized something I thought I had to tell you. A truly intelligent man, would only heed arguments in a rational discussion. And you have now for the second time brought up intelligence or IQ. IQ is not an argument. And neither is a degree in philosophy. They both are ways of showcasing some form of authority. Please refrain from doing so, because it brings the danger that (truly intelligent) people might assume, you have no real arguments. However you clearly do have real arguments.
I don't see as of yet one that was able to prove my argument or my assumptions wrong (assuming I did understand them properly), but you clearly have interesting arguments to consider.
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@petrapark3r said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
I don't understand why you mention this here. I was saying that taking the bible literally in this sense (assuming God created the world in 7 earth days) would be a lack of intelligence, or maybe a laziness of thinking, on my part, since taking it literally in this sense is already contradictory because of the existence of two contradicting generation stories in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.
I agree on it. I mentioned it because I messed up some paragraphs earlier.
What I meant by not reading Genesis literally is that I don't take the 7 days to be literal days of any kind. I take these as symbolic. For example the fact, that the first thing that God creates is light. This doesn't make any sense from a scientific viewpoint, and the people who lived back then had the same IQ level as us (if we believe the scientific consensus on human development). It must have been obvious even to them, that the sun is in fact the origin of light. Actually there are enough ancient texts that show that people did in fact understand this. So why in the world would God create light before the sun or the stars?
I suppose our and their IQ’s were same but we cannot know the exact time without checking a clock. For an example, it is 09:00 PM in my country. I would like to sleep sleep at 12.00 AM. I will be unable to know the exact time 12.00 PM without having a clock or a PDA. Today I am talking with some virtual friends, the time will be spent up very swiftly. When I was attending the lecture in college, I wanted my time to spend quick. Assuming sun is not made yet but light has been made I may sleep at 12.30AM or even 2.00 AM. Thus, their 1 day was not exactly of 24 hours , it could be 22 hours or 26 hours. It will make creation dubious further. Therefore it cannot be definitely said that he completed his work in 7 days. Perhaps more than that or even lesser than that.
you didnt refute me you avoided me
I never avoided you. I disproved first argument of god in-apparently. Now I would write apparently.
Why is there a bike? How can it always be borrowed, if there is no original owner?
Bike was borrowed by A to B, B to C. A bought it from a showroom or a shop. This shopkeeper bought the bike form manufacturer. E, F, G, H A.K.A. laborers and some machines manufactured it together. Human created the bike and human created the God. I will explain how human created the God ahead.
Now everyone will ask- Who made the first humans ‘Adam’ and ‘Eve’. ? -If Adam and Eve were the root causes or root cause of all things, they could birth the ants or plants together.
- Who created universe ? - I would elaborate materialism for it. It is more rational than assuming an invisible, unheard, unseen man in start of the chain.
The answer is, that this is the light of reason, of understanding, of truth. If you want to understand where I'm coming from I recommend Dr. Jordan Peterson's lectures on the psychological significance of the bible.
Bible was interpreted by different people. Their interpretation conflicts themselves so does that mean Bible is not a reliable source of christian theism ?
This in turn means, that also the other days are to be understand symbolically.
Again, interpretation of Bible in different way by anyone doesnt make any sense.
It shows how God ordered everything, not just the things he created but also the time.
That’s what you say but he never created the time. I was reading on Wikipedia today and pressed ctrl+F and typed ‘time’ but surprising thing was I could not find any sentence related to time and relation of God’. I want a reliable source for it. This was the article -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_creation_narrative
All of Genesis speaks about God's relation to His creation and specifically His relation to us and our relation to Him and our relation to creation. God orders our life according to the order of days. This is what it is about.
The sabbath is the holy day, it is the day of service to the Lord. It is on this day, that we pray most, and that we rest. And God does enjoy this love we bring Him on the seventh day. And if you enjoy something you can really relax.Then almighty creator is not God he is just a human. A banker or a teacher works for 6 days and rests on 7th day (which is Sunday). An omnipotence, perfect entity like him should never be tired. Also, this reminds me of some ancient Mughal kings. Those kings enjoy in their harem after defeating other kings with audacity. Aren’t those three persons exactly same (1. A Banker, 2. The God, 3. A Medieval King) ?
What do you mean by this?
I meant perception is the most reliable source of knowledge after inference. You never included we can perceive the five elements but God is so far from our senses. God is not perceived. If perception is the only reliable source of knowledge, we can rationally assert only the reality of perceptible objects. God, heaven, hell and any unperceived law cannot be believed in, because they are all beyond perception.
Material objects are the only objects whose existence can be perceived and whose reality can be asserted. Matter is made of five elements. Not only non-living material objects but also living organisms, like plants, animal bodies, are composed of these five elements, by the combination of which they are produces and to which they are reduced on deathI concede that there is a third choice: Agnosticism.
And what about materialistic agnostic atheism ?
Which means not believing that there is a God but saying you cannot know. In my opinion this is actually the only real alternative to believing that God exists.
You defined the very correct definition of agnosticism but atheism is also an alternative to theism.The point is that God is his own reason and his own cause and since this is not understandable to our mind, He is irrational.
God is the reason and human is its cause. God cannot be his own reason. Moreover I elaborate this point.
'Heaven' and 'Hell' are the inventions of the priests whose professional interest lies in coaxing, threatening and making people perform the rituals or prayers. Enlightened men will always refuse to be duped by them. Not only in the old era but also in this one, priests scare everyone away. Religion and God are based mainly upon fear. Fear is the basis of the whole thing -- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. In this world we can now begin a little to understand things, and a little to master them by help of science, which has forced its way step by step against the Christian religion, against the churches, and against the opposition of all the old precepts. Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it.I verified it with my own perception. I remembered when I used to believe in God just because I was told by my parents. I was just 9 yo in that moment. I wanted to entered the temple but the hindu priest of temple prohibited me to enter in it. People believe in caste-ism here but it was not an issue for me because I come in an upper level caste. He told me to give him some fruits or money. When I argued with him that temple is for everyone either he is miser or poor or rich, he cursed me and said I will go to hell because I didnt make happy my God.
However to say this about the world (being its own reason and being its own cause), which is the only alternative, sounds quite strange. And it means the world would be non-understandable, irrational.
The material elements produce the world, and the supposition of a creator is unnecessary. The objection may be raised: Can the material elements by themselves give rise to this wonderful world ? We find that even the production of an object like an earthen jar requires, in addition to clay which is its material cause, a potter who the efficient cause that shapes the material into the desired form. The five elements supply only the material cause of the world. Do we not require an efficient cause, like God, as the shaper and designer who turns the material elements into this wonderful world • ? In reply, we state that the material elements themselves have got each its fixed nature. It is by the natures and laws inherent in them that they combine together to form this world. There is thus no necessity for God. There is no proof that the objects of the world are the products of any design. They can be explained more reasonably as the fortuitous products of the elements.
This theory tries to explain the world only by nature, it is sometimes called naturalism. It is also called mechanism because it denies the existence of conscious purpose behind the world and explains it as a mere mechanical or fortuitous combination of elements. This theory on the whole may also be called positivism, because it believes only in positive facts or observable phenomena.By what argument do you assume, that if God was the root cause, there could not be any houses?
I assumed by cosmological argument.
Also genesis 1:1 tells us that, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth”
While extolling the glory of Jesus, the apostle Paul says this about Him, “And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together” (Colossians 1:17 ESV). -
@petrapark3r i'd like to preface with: being atheist does not mean you think god does not it exist, it means you are not convinced of the existence of a god, there is still a possibility that one or many exist. What someone thinks is a "god" is really up to opinion. Saying that a god has to exist for a universe to exist is a bold claim. You can't say that "the universe cant just exist without something making it". How did "god" come to exist then, before the universe? There are some questions we just can't answer, and shouldn't pretend to know the answers to. Atheism is simply admitting that you do not know all the answers, and that you are not sure or unsure that a god does exist.
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@Electrifying-Guy said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
Assuming sun is not made yet but light has been made I may sleep at 12.30AM or even 2.00 AM. Thus, their 1 day was not exactly of 24 hours , it could be 22 hours or 26 hours. It will make creation dubious further. Therefore it cannot be definitely said that he completed his work in 7 days. Perhaps more than that or even lesser than that.
- A wrong interpretation is and stays wrong, no matter how many people believe in it. There have been lots of heresies in the history of the christianity. None of them are correct. No the bible alone is not a reliable source of the true christian doctrine. You need to have the Holy Spirit to interpret the bible correctly and you need to be united to the true apostolic church.
- I have proven to you that the literal intepretation of Genisis is complete nonsense
- I don't agree with this literal interpretation
And yet you keep bringing it up. And you think refuting your own nonsensical interpretation of the bible is an argument...
Worse than this, my original line of thought is completely philosophical in nature. Bringing a up the bible is out of context, and cannot be called an argument.
I will answer some of your other points later...
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@Electrifying-Guy said in [Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational]
I meant perception is the most reliable source of knowledge after inference. You never included we can perceive the five elements but God is so far from our senses. God is not perceived. If perception is the only reliable source of knowledge, we can rationally assert only the reality of perceptible objects. God, heaven, hell and any unperceived law cannot be believed in, because they are all beyond perception.
Material objects are the only objects whose existence can be perceived and whose reality can be asserted. Matter is made of five elements. Not only non-living material objects but also living organisms, like plants, animal bodies, are composed of these five elements, by the combination of which they are produces and to which they are reduced on deathIf you call only perceivable things real, then you have got a problem because you shouldn't be using a device that sends non-perceivable signals through the air. Develish device eh?
If you only allow measurable things (the focus of science) and say anything that cannot be measured is not real, then you are an atheist.
If you allow deduction / inference from the perceivable things, then you can deduce, as I did, that the atheistic viewpoint is irrational.
If you remain with the perceivable things and simply say you cannot perceive the origin of the universe and thus you don't know, you are agnostic.
And what about materialistic agnostic atheism ?
There is no such thing as agnoistic atheism. Those two are contradictory, for atheism means believing you know that there is no God while agnosticism is believing you don't know that there is no God.
'Heaven' and 'Hell' are the inventions of the priests whose professional interest lies in coaxing, threatening and making people perform the rituals or prayers. Enlightened men will always refuse to be duped by them. Not only in the old era but also in this one, priests scare everyone away. Religion and God are based mainly upon fear. Fear is the basis of the whole thing -- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand.
You propably don't know, but atheism in the form of communism has brought much more cruelty and fear. In fact communism had many times the number of victims that nazi germany did.
By this historic fact I conclude that fear, cruelty and evil are part of human nature and cannot be layed at the feet of religion.
It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. In this world we can now begin a little to understand things, and a little to master them by help of science, which has forced its way step by step against the Christian religion, against the churches, and against the opposition of all the old precepts.
Science was developed in catholic universities. Science is not anti-christian. Also "science" just like IQ is not an argument.
Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it.
Science cannot help you get over your fears. Fears are human. Religion on the other hand seems to be able to actually make you overcome your fears. This might be a bit counterintuitive but christianity is the only religion that gains followers by conversion in this day and age. This is even more incredible since we have the greatest persecution (and murder) of christians in all of human history today. And in the places where christianity is persecuted the most it grows the fastest. Freaky right?
But of course I concede this has nothing to do with the philosophical argument of wether God is the first cause or not.
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@paperbox said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
@petrapark3r i'd like to preface with: being atheist does not mean you think god does not it exist, it means you are not convinced of the existence of a god, there is still a possibility that one or many exist. What someone thinks is a "god" is really up to opinion. Saying that a god has to exist for a universe to exist is a bold claim. You can't say that "the universe cant just exist without something making it". How did "god" come to exist then, before the universe? There are some questions we just can't answer, and shouldn't pretend to know the answers to. Atheism is simply admitting that you do not know all the answers, and that you are not sure or unsure that a god does exist.
It might be the case that this is called "atheism" in common parlance, but the real name of what you describe is "agnosticism" and I as a former agnostic acknowledge its validity (it is logically valid, but I no longer believe it is true). However I do believe in God now and you might be interested in why. But that is a topic for another day.
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@Electrifying-Guy said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
Why is there a bike? How can it always be borrowed, if there is no original owner?
Bike was borrowed by A to B, B to C. A bought it from a showroom or a shop. This shopkeeper bought the bike form manufacturer. E, F, G, H A.K.A. laborers and some machines manufactured it together. Human created the bike and human created the God. I will explain how human created the God ahead.
Absolutely true, the bike is there because there was a manufacturer. This is exactly my point.
In my analogy the bike stands for existence itself, which you have been given by your parents, which they have been given by their ancestors, which they have been given by the chain of evolution, which has been given its existence by the materials, which have been given their existence when they were formed in a star... anyways, you have a chain of things that have existence. Where does the existence come from?
Now everyone will ask
- Who made the first humans ‘Adam’ and ‘Eve’. ? -If Adam and Eve were the root causes or root cause of all things, they could birth the ants or plants together.
- Who created universe ? - I would elaborate materialism for it. It is more rational than assuming an invisible, unheard, unseen man in start of the chain.
Materialism gave things existence? You mean the universe itself gave the chain its existence? Whats the reason for the chain to exist?
You have no rational answer. That is the point of the argument I made. Whichever answer you give, may it be God or may it be an eternal chain, the answer is irrational = non understandable to our reason (reason = lat. ratio).
And the answer God is not more irrational than the other irrational answer.
In fact the answer God could actually be said to be more rational because it has the advantage, that if you say "God" is the reason, then the world would be rational in itself. If "the world" was the answer, then this world that you say is the reason for its own existence would be irrational.
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@petrapark3r said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
You need to have the Holy Spirit to interpret the bible correctly and you need to be united to the true apostolic church.
This is what most theists speak with faith. It is not even close to any logic. Perception is the limited source of knowledge. As you say, those people need to have holy spirit for interpreting, this is nothing more than manipulation and coaxing. Having holy spirit by some few people means only a bunch of people can interpret the bible. Isn’t it much more limited than perception ?
I have proven to you that the literal interpretation of Genesis is complete nonsense
It makes Bible imperfect. Bible is perfect according to those who interpret Bible as it is. You call them nonintellectual persons.
Also, the fourth argument of Aquinas was, that we find various perfections in the world, and that these must have their source in something completely perfect.
Conclusion- Bible is imperfect, it was not created by God.
If he created the imperfect Bible, He will be called imperfect.
I’m pointing out the attributes of Aquinas’ God.
In his own words, ‘’His knowledge is not a habit, and is not discursive or argumentative.’’
While describing God is the good he also described ‘’he is intelligent, and His
act of intelligence is His essence. He understands by His essence, and understands Himself
perfectly.’’
In the 2nd book where he described the perfections of God, that he cannot make any person without soul, or make the sum of the angles of a triangle be not two right angles.
His God is bodiless because bodies have parts. There is no composition in his God.
Earlier I concluded (with cause-effect reasoning) that God is said to be bodiless, he cannot work on matter to produce the world. You said God was irrational there. Haven’t you ever read Aquinas’ cause-effect reasoning ? His reasoning is same as the reasoning of Indian nyayic theism. According to him, this world is product of creator God.
So what is remained in this debate ?If you call only perceivable things real, then you have got a problem because you shouldn't be using a device that sends non-perceivable signals through the air.
There is no such thing as agnostic atheism.
You seem to be bemused about theism, atheism and agnostic here. I could say there is no such thing as agnostic theism but I wouldn’t say. Sounds like you have not read anything about Aquinas’ God. He was an agnoisitc theist. When you know there is a God but you cannot know any of his characteristics, is agnosticism. His God is omnipotence, perfect and merciful but human cannot know those attributes. The reason behind Aquinas’ agnosticism was -
- Human is limited but God is unlimited
- God is past and far from human and universe.
- Man is created by universe but God is the creator of universe.
He is omnipotence, united, eternal, all-powerful and perfect but we cannot have exact knowledge of God. We can know those attributes with universal things. This theory of Aquinas is not contradictory to theism. Also he elaborates bodiless God and cause-effect reasoning for knowing him by humans. I argument-ed against it earlier and some other posts in same thread.
The argument against his god can be given by an other way too-
An objection on his omnipotence I raised when you asked how relation of houses and God comes into between. God is held to be one on the ground that, if there were many gods they would act with different plans and purposes, and consequently a harmonious world, as we have, wouldn't have been possible. But this argument aint sound, because we observe that many human beings like masons and even lower animals like ants and bees act together harmoniously to build objects like palaces, ant-hills and hives. God again is said to be eternally perfect. But eternal perfection is a meaningless epither. Perfection is only a removal of imperfection and it is meaningless to call a being perfect who was never imperfect.I elaborate agnostic atheism now.
If you had ever read about this theory on internet, you would not have come up with your opinion’ ‘’there is no such theory as agnostic atheism.’’ I will give you an internet link as well.Theism is a belief that God exists, it can be best understood something is true or false, as a preposition.
Atheism- a with theism must be understood ‘not god’ instead of ‘without God’
When you ask. ‘’is there God ?’’
Two answered can be given- yes there is- theism
- no there is not- atheism
The above definitions were old ones.
Later some philosophers and non-philosophers claimed that Atheism should not be defined as preposition. It should be defined as psychological state. For more, you can check this Stanford university article -
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/If you call only perceivable things real, then you have got a problem because you shouldn't be using a device that sends non-perceivable signals through the air. Develish device eh?
There is not any instrument made for perception or measuring the God. However a device signals can be measured by an equipment.
If you only allow measurable things (the focus of science) and say anything that cannot be measured is not real, then you are an atheist.
If you allow deduction / inference from the perceivable things, then you can deduce, as I did, that the atheistic viewpoint is irrational.
If you remain with the perceivable things and simply say you cannot perceive the origin of the universe and thus you don't know, you are agnostic.There will be 7 probabilities not only four
take the idea of a spectrum of probabilities seriously, and place human judgments about the existence of God along it, between two extremes of opposite certainty. The spectrum is continuous, but it can be represented by the following seven milestones along the way.- Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C. G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'
- Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto
theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe
in God and live my life on the assumption that he is
there.' - Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'
- Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's
existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.' - Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic
but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be sceptical.' - Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'IT H E G O D H Y P O T H E SIS cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'
7 Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same
conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.
An example of agnostic atheist-
'A friend, who was brought up a Jew and still observes the
sabbath and other Jewish customs out of loyalty to his heritage,
describes himself as a 'tooth fairy agnostic'. He regards God as no
more probable than the tooth fairy. You can't disprove either
hypothesis, and both are equally improbable. He is an a-theist to
exactly the same large extent that he is an a-fairyist. And agnostic
about both, to the same small extent.Materialism gave things existence? You mean the universe itself gave the chain its existence?
You have no rational answer. That is the point of the argument I made. Whichever answer you give, may it be God or may it be an eternal chain, the answer is irrational = non understandable to our reason (reason = lat. Ratio).
And the answer God is not more irrational than the other irrational answer.
. If "the world" was the answer, then this world that you say is the reason for its own existence would be irrational.You didn’t read between the lines. I elaborated naturalism or materialism theory after my two sentences. I would not reiterate for anyone. Reiterating anything is waste of time. The answer has already be given, when you will reply on that I will reply you ahead. Just saying I have no rational answer or repeating yourself is not a valid and/or strong argument. It could be more logical when you could argument against how theory was logical.
Only the sentence of yours were not repetitive would be able to reply by me
In fact the answer God could actually be said to be more rational because it has the advantage, that if you say "God" is the reason, then the world would be rational in itself
Explain it more. If I say ‘God’ is the reason he cannot be first cause. This is against cosmological argument. Right ?
You propably don't know, but atheism in the form of communism has brought much more cruelty and fear. In fact communism had many times the number of victims that nazi germany did.
You knew affected countries’ population in those both eras. Didn’t you ? Nazism never affected China and India. It affected jew and polish region more than soviet union as well. Whereas bolshevic plague started from Russia that’s population should be taken into consideration. It effected the most populous countries China and India.
In an incident protestants were too much than other protestants. Therefore, no. Of deaths in first incident > no. Of death in second incident
Science was developed in catholic universities. Science is not anti-christian. Also "science" just like IQ is not an argument.
A christian has to follow his religion until 18 because his parents told him to do so. He has not been granted to choose the religion before this age. Some universities might be full of those students.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technology vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology
Science is not an argument like IQ. IQ was never an argument. When did I ever say IQ was an argument. I brought up IQ because your topic was catchy ‘’why atheism is irrational’’. Instead of that topic name it could be ‘’How atheism is unable to prove the god’’ seems more suitable.
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Common Categories of Free Chat Rooms
1. General Chat Rooms: These rooms provide an informal setting for discussion on any subject. These rooms are great for casual conversations, whether someone wants to share a strange idea or speak about their day.
2. Themed Chat Rooms: A lot of people want to participate in discussions that are tailored to their interests. Users may interact with others who share their interests in relationships, technology, gaming, movies, and other topics by joining themed chat rooms.
3. Random Chat Rooms: One of the TWS platform's most well-liked features is its random chat rooms function. Users are paired with random people in these rooms to have impromptu talks. Random voice chat rooms provide an element of excitement and unpredictability, whether you're wanting to meet someone new or just want to have a surprise conversation.
Random Conversations: A Special Way to Speak With Strangers
One of Talk With Stranger's key features is its random chat feature, which matches users with random people from all around the world. Users never know who they'll be conversing with next because of this feature, which gives the site a sense of surprise and originality.
The popularity of random conversations has increased for a number of reasons:
1. Spontaneity: Random conversations offer a totally unexpected experience, in contrast to other chat platforms where users may join particular groups based on interests. Users who like making new friends or who just want to kill time by striking up a random discussion will find this appealing.
2. Global Reach: Due to the platform's global user base, casual chats frequently result in discussions with individuals from other nations and cultural backgrounds. Because of its diversity, the user experience is enhanced and learning and cultural exchange are made possible.
3. Anonymity: Because TWS random conversations are primarily anonymous, participants are able to express themselves honestly without worrying about disclosing personal information. Because of their anonymity, users may be more at ease and authentic.
The random chat function improves TWS overall by encouraging special and impromptu relationships that would not occur in more formal conversation environments.
Actual Instances of User Engagement on the Recent Page
There is a wide range of active engagement on the Recent page. Users share a variety of content, such as invites to games or group discussions and personal narratives. The "Recent" page can be used in the following typical ways to facilitate connections:
Seeking Former Chat Partners: A lot of people utilize the "Recent" tab to post in an attempt to get in touch with someone they previously spoke with. This is especially typical in situations when participants are chatting randomly and may not have had time to share contact information before the chat ends. As an example, a user could post:
"Searching for the girl who spoke about Harry Potter the day before." Message me if you see this, please!
2. Inviting Users to Join Group chat conversations in group chat rooms: Some users invite others to themed or group conversations by going to the "Recent" page. These entries may provide an overview of the subject matter and an open invitation to participate for everyone who is interested.
"Hi everyone, today we're playing a game of truth or dare in the "Random Fun" chat room. If you're ready for some fun, please feel free to join!
3. Asking queries or advice: Users frequently post queries on TWS in an effort to get advice from other members of the community, which is highly helpful. These might be more serious questions about life, personal recommendations, or suggestions for movies or literature.
"Hey, I need some guidance on how to deal with a challenging circumstance at work. I'd be delighted to hear your opinions!
4. Sharing Personal tales: Users can also share tales or personal experiences with the community on the site. These posts frequently start conversations and bring people together via similar experiences.
"So, last night I had this strange dream. Just curious if anyone else has had something like it." Let's talk about weird dreams!
The community is kept alive and active by the diversity of involvement, which guarantees that there is always something fresh going on the "Recent" tab.
The Influence of Inclusive and Anonymity in Free Chat Rooms
Talk With Stranger's dedication to anonymity is one of its best features. Because sharing personal information is not mandatory, users are able to converse openly and without fear of repercussion. Those who might be reluctant or bashful to express their opinions in more conventional social settings will find this option very intriguing.
Additionally, anonymity creates a level playing field by removing prejudices and preconceptions from interactions between people from different backgrounds. It promotes candid and open discussion since users may voice their opinions without worrying about the consequences.
The website is also quite inclusive, providing free chat rooms that accommodate a wide variety of hobbies and backgrounds. You'll discover a room that works for you whether you want to play games, have in-depth philosophical discussions, or just chat about music.
How to Use the "Recent" Page and Navigate It
New users may easily navigate the "Recent" page.When you log in to the site, the website transforms into a live feed featuring the most recent posts. Here's a little tutorial to help you make the most of it:
1. Look for interesting topics. To see the most recent posts, navigate to the "Recent" page, which is often updated.
2. Post Your Own Message: All it takes to initiate a discussion or pose a query is to make a post. This area can be used for asking for guidance, inviting others to join a discussion, or sharing a thought with the group.
3. React to Others: One of the simplest ways to participate in the community is to reply to other users' postings. Reacting to postings, whether by giving counsel or just jumping into a conversation, promotes deep ties.
4. Invite People to Chat Rooms: You are welcome to publish an invitation on the "Recent" tab if you would want to start a chat room or if you have a particular one in mind. This is a fantastic method to get like-minded people together for games or conversations in groups.
The Significance of Community Engagement and Feedback
Initiating discussions is only one aspect of engagement on the "Recent" tab; community members' feedback and interactions are equally crucial. Feedback can come in a variety of forms, such as answers to queries, supportive comments during conversations, or even helpful critique.
Promoting Positive Criticism
1. Establishing a Safe Space for Sharing: It's critical to have an environment that is encouraging when people offer feedback. Constructive criticism promotes users' confidence in voicing their thoughts, which might result in more in-depth conversations.
2. Encourage Active Listening: Active listening is necessary for participating in discussions on the "Recent" page. Before replying, users should carefully read the posts made by others. This exercise aids in creating pertinent responses that significantly advance the current conversations.
3. Acknowledging Contributions: It's critical for other community members to recognize the insightful viewpoints and helpful counsel that others have shared. To help people feel appreciated, a brief "Thank you" or a more thorough answer might be quite beneficial.
Activities to Foster Community
Community contact is essential for Talk With Stranger to flourish, and the "Recent" page acts as a spark for a variety of community-building events. In addition to maintaining user engagement, these activities help participants form enduring relationships.
Games and Tasks for Groups
By using the postings on the "Recent" tab, a lot of users take the initiative to set up challenges or group activities. These exercises, which encourage cooperation and healthy competition, might be anything from quiz contests to creative writing assignments.
1. Trivia Nights: Users can suggest a trivia night and extend an invitation to others to attend. In order to ensure that everyone may participate, regardless of knowledge level, questions can cover a variety of topics.
2. Creative Writing Challenges: People who love to write in the community often organize writing contests in which participants are required to come up with short tales in response to suggestions. This encourages creativity and gives individuals a platform to demonstrate their writing abilities.
3. Collaborative Projects: people may work together on projects, including starting a blog or community newsletter using content from different people. Everyone feels more invested in the community and more engaged as a result of this team effort.
The Value of Restraint and Safety Procedures
Despite the typically warm and inviting attitude on Talk With Stranger, it's critical to have policies in place that safeguard users and promote a constructive environment. Moderators are employed by the site and are vital in maintaining civil and entertaining interactions for all users.
1. Active Monitoring: Moderators keep an eye out for improper conduct or content on the "Recent" page and in other chat rooms. Their presence guarantees that users feel secure interacting with others and helps discourage bad interactions.
2. Giving users more power: Users are urged to help keep the group honest by sharing any questionable behavior. We can make sure that everyone is responsible for making the workplace nice if we all work together.
4. Educational Initiatives: Another area of the community's concentration is instructing individuals on safe online behavior. A safer environment is achieved by consistently reminding people of the value of preserving personal information and having polite conversations.
Establishing Consistency in Building Trust
Any community needs trust, and developing that trust requires patience and steady work. Users may cultivate trust through their interactions and communication dependability on the "Recent" page.
1. Consistency in Engagement: Engaging in conversations on a regular basis contributes to building a presence in the community. Those who often offer insightful commentary and assistance are likely to establish lasting bonds with one another.
2. Keep Your Words: Users must keep their word when they agree to join a group chat or take part in an activity. Reliability in keeping promises sustains credibility and entices people to interact with you.
3. Transparency in aims: Establishing rapport during discussions can be facilitated by being forthright about one's aims. Clear communication creates a trustworthy atmosphere, whether one is looking for companionship, guidance, or just a good conversation.
Individual Development via Community Involvement
Talk With Stranger conversations offer chances for self development in addition to social connection. Through networking with a variety of people, users may broaden their views and improve their social skills.
1. Improved Communication Skills: Having talks on a daily basis helps users improve their communication skills, making it easier for them to express their thoughts and actively listen to others.
2. Broadened views: Engaging with others from different backgrounds exposes people to a range of countries, ways of life, and views. Having this exposure may increase one's understanding and empathy.
3. Enhanced Confidence: Taking part in discussions, particularly random ones, may give people a boost in confidence. Users could grow more at ease expressing themselves in real and online contexts over time.
The Future of Virtual Communication: Chat Community Trends
The community's ideals and interests are reflected in the content that people have contributed on the "Recent" page. This user-generated content, which ranges from artistic creations to personal narratives, acts as a mirror to the users' varied viewpoints and experiences.
By identifying what appeals to users most, analyzing this content may provide light on the community's collective identity, promote a feeling of community, and inspire others to share their perspectives.
Future developments in technology and user behavior will probably have an impact on Talk With Stranger and other similar services as online communication continues to change. Users' interactions with one another might be influenced by innovations including more individualized chat experiences, AI-driven moderation, and improved privacy options.
Communities will also need to change in response to the increasing desire for inclusiveness and diversity in order to continue being welcome places for people looking to connect and have a discussion.
Concluding Remarks on Engagement Techniques
Here are some last ideas to keep in mind while customers explore the ever-changing "Recent" page to improve their experience:
1. Remain Curious: Enter into discussions with an open mind. Deeper relationships might result from posing questions and demonstrating an interest in the experiences of others.
2. Be Respectful: Regardless of the outcome of a discussion, always show others respect. It is possible to avoid misunderstandings and create a pleasant environment by acting with respect.
3. Promote Inclusive: Try to interact with users who could come out as more reserved or uninvolved. Encouraging everyone to participate contributes to the development of a well-rounded community.
Users may enhance their own and others' experiences on Talk With Stranger by adhering to these rules and helping to create a vibrant and encouraging community.
Summary
Talk With Stranger's "Recent" tab is a hive of activity where people publish updates, participate in free chat rooms, and exchange content with one another. People come together to engage in real-time interaction in this melting pot of concepts, feelings, and relationships. The page's lively interaction demonstrates the platform's function as a global discussion center, making it a fun location to make new friends and get in touch with existing ones.
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQS)
Q1: What does the Talk With Strangers "Recent" page entail?
Answer: Users may share their most recent updates, re-connect with others, and have discussions in free chat rooms and sporadic chat sessions on the "Recent" part of the website.
Q2: How do TWS free chat rooms operate?
Answer: Users may join or establish free chat rooms to converse on a variety of topics without having to pay anything. Everyone is welcome to use these rooms, which encourage impromptu conversations.
Q3. Is it possible to locate particular people on the "Recent" page?
Answer: A lot of people do post on the "Recent" tab in an attempt to get in touch with someone they spoke with before. Users can use this function to look up friends or conversation partners from past sessions.
Q4: Is there no cost to utilize Talk With Stranger?
Answer: Users do not need to pay to access random conversations, free chat rooms, and other services on the site.
Q5: What kinds of subjects are covered on TWS?
Answer: A broad variety of subjects are discussed by users, such as dating, movies, technology, life guidance, and more.
Conclusion
The "Recent" tab on the Talk With Stranger platform embodies the spirit of contemporary internet conversation. TWS creates an atmosphere where community members feel linked even when they are geographically separated by providing a place where users may participate in random conversations, have free chat sessions, and post updates. The platform provides a dynamic and varied area to satisfy your social requirements, whether you're looking for a brief chat or a deeper conversation.
Recent Posts
Engaging Popular Topics and Daily Topics in Online Chatrooms
Online chatrooms have given rise to an animated platform, the beauty of which is that people can freely express their views on an infinite number of topics. This makes the chatrooms more appealing than ever. There are many aspects of the popular topics in the chat where people come to share their thoughts, ask questions, or even just talk, whether it is about daily life, fun, issues relating to people, or even news. No matter how quickly the world changes, and how fast paced the world of the internet becomes. These chatrooms make it possible for that ever-new wave of active discussions to take place, ensuring that there are new daily topics on which people will talk. Free chat with other strangers and make new friends online on Talk With Stranger by talking to strangers.
Specifically, in this article, we will look at the most common popular topics and the typical daily topics that sustain chatrooms and their relevance to users worldwide. This guide is designed to walk you through the focus areas that attract the greatest interest and where exactly in today’s reality, they have chatrooms turned into a melting pot of relations based on the commonality of interests. Chat online today on TWS (TalkWithStranger) free chat sites.
The Appeal of Popular Topics Available in Chatrooms
Interesting features include the extensive range of interesting topics available, which appeal to many people, in the chat rooms. Users on such platforms log in to participate in various topics. It includes news, entertainment, and personal life issues where one seeks advice. The interesting thing about these services is that they are very flexible. One can look for a particular chat room for a particular interest or just join general conversations on everydayevery day topics that are suitable to most members.
What Brings People’s Attention to Popular Topics?
Many factors make certain topics interesting in chat rooms:
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Users’ temptations: There is a tendency among users to love taking part in topics that appeal to them the most. This could go like my favorite sport, my best friend, my way of life, etc.
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Topics that grab people’s attention: Such topics would be politics, maternal care, and discussions of trends that are of the moment, the amount of response generated is always impressive.
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Communication: It is often the case that many people from different walks of life have something in common in terms of subjects of interest. Chat rooms provide the perfect medium for enhancing the attainment of the objective given the chances of being supportive.
Popular Topics: Chat Room Examples
Some topics tend to be focused on in chat rooms every time. The topics include:
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Entertainment: Most of the time, some topics revolve around movies, television shows, music, or video games. It could be an advertisement for the most recent movie or a review of the music tabs. One thing that is guaranteed is that entertainment is always booming.
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Personal Relationships: Most of the time chat rooms are used to air relationship challenges, seek assistance, or even share very amusing dating experiences.
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Health and Wellness: Most people seek participation in chat rooms from textbooks or fitness programs for sporting or health advice. Members will often share information concerning the different aspects of healthy living.
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Hobbies and Interests: Chat rooms are great for passionate individuals to unite and talk about photography, trips, or gaming.
The Dynamic Nature of Daily Topics
While popular topics help users join conversations, it is the daily topics that engage users in chat rooms that are activerooms active and interesting all the time. These conversations tend to be more relaxed and light-hearted. They enable users to log in every day and have something to say without feeling overwhelmed by the need to give a detailed response. These daily topics are also particularly useful in helping people form social bonds over ordinary daily enterprises.
How Daily Topics Maintain Interest in Chatrooms
Daily topics are introduced in every chat room to enhance user interaction in each room. These topics revolve around something going on in the current and global environment. Users can share how their day is going, offeringgoing offering their thoughts about any holiday or other memorable day. This strategy I believe aids in making the members active and hence making them wish to come back to the room more often.
Common Types of Daily Topics on Free Chat sites
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Daily Check-Ins: It’s common in most chat rooms to find a thread titled “How’s your day” where individuals post what has been happening to them.
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Current Events: A hot talk is a topic that arises from breaking news the most popular politics of the day or a hot global issue.
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Personal Milestones: Users like to express their achievements, presenting such events as a successful promotion, a new relationship, or losing extra weight.
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Lighthearted Fun: Coveted daily trivia and other everyday topics encourage users to take their time and look for lighthearted and funny themes.
The Change in Trends in Chats and Subjects in Chatrooms
With the advancement in technology, so do the topics in the chat room. Most people talk about the same things over the internet, like entertainment, relationships, health and so other aspects that are popular with the majority. The chat rooms of today are such that members are as likely to engage in understanding tech advancements and sharing thoughts on cryptocurrency and responsible living as much as they do about fetishes and lifestyle fads.
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Trending Popular Topics in Modern Chatrooms
There has been the development of popular topics in chat rooms, especially with the emergence of social media and the quick spread of information. Some of these niches that are becoming increasingly popular in chat rooms include:
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Tech and Gadgets: Since the technology era is ever getting advanced, some users just can never stay in a room without chatting about the most recent devices and applications thatapplications, that are revolutionizing the world today.
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Sustainability: Now more than ever, many people are conscious of environmental concerns and chat rooms are also more about modern living, climate, and sustainability as well.
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Cryptocurrency and Blockchain: Many are still catching up with the crypto world and as the market for cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and Ethereum continues to grow. Many chat rooms center around the same helping users provide areas where they can talk about the latest in crypto, and even help investors time the market.
Integrating New Trends
It is one of the outstanding virtues of the chatrooms to incorporate new trends that come up. As new interests develop, chatrooms tend to adopt these changes by adding fresh popular topics that occupy users and keep the subject of the platforms. These trends in popular culture allow abandoning the claim that chat rooms in the modern world no longer have any reason to exist.
Inclusion of Popular Topics and Daily Topics in Building Community
Every active chatroom seems to be vigorous mostly due to the sense of community residing in it. Users do not simply engage in conversations; they relate with persons who have common interests with them. Popular topics become the points where users can strive to begin making conversations while daily topics aim to make the chat rooms more engaging and colorful.
Importance Of Popular Topics In Relating Users
Beginning from the fact that users in a chat room engage in certain popular topics quite frequently, certain bonds start forming. This can either be as a result of a common favorite show or advice given on personal stuff, these talks create an aspect of closeness and attachment among the members.
How Moderators Influence the Nature of Popular Topics
Moderators help scrutinize and enhance what is being talked about in the chat rooms. They keep the closure with users by topping and pinning some hot topics to avoid unnecessary diversion from the subject of discussion.
The Influence of Trending Topics on the Traffic of Chat Rooms
The variation of popular topics is one of the features that is responsible for the constant return by users to the chat rooms. Some topics, once they become popular, are known to draw an even bigger audience and hence create a lot of movement into the platform. This is particularly true of chatrooms which are mostly focused on current discussions concerning trends that are fascinating enough to pitch a large number of people to walk in and join in the talk that is actively going on.
User-Generated Content and Its Effects on the Popular Daily Topics
The nature of all the user-generated content is also one of the things that appeals more to popular topics. The main weakness which traditional media hosts is that it is very rare and poorly structured by active participants which are the members and audiences of free chat rooms. This therefore explains why popular topics are referred to as fluid and flexible to the will and wishes of people.
Some of the most common user-generated popular topics that have been known to attract traffic include:
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Live Event Discussions: Large events containing competitions like sports, award ceremonies, and others, are all great topics because they usually attract large numbers of users to chat rooms to discuss these events as they are happening.
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Viral Challenges and Trends: It could be an internet challenge, a viral meme, videos, or animations; chatrooms are channels that enable users to engage and talk about such trends.
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Advice Columns: It is no news that threads and discussions seeking to offer or request advice on matters of relationships, career choices, and even health are some of the most actively participated areas in chatrooms from their popular circles.
How Chatrooms Evolve Around Daily Topics
As time goes by, chatrooms change in their structure and contents. This is because the trends and preferences of the users also change over time. Daily topics are essential as they keep chatrooms functional as a channel of instant communication. These days, most of the chatrooms are adding up new technologies and features to meet the increasing expectation of instant communication.
The Rise of Real-Time Interactions
With social media being the key to communication, chatrooms also adopted a real-time interaction facility that allows users to participate in a conversation that has already commenced. Daily topics such as current affairs, news, or what is trending at that time can be used for such calls for discussions. This is the essence of immediacy and it is arguably why people would want to participate and interact with other people.
Mobile Chatrooms and Their Social Aspects
Mobile devices dominate the internet today and chatrooms have adapted their systems to this trend. The change has had a notable effect on the way people consume the questions of the day and interact with them. It is now possible for users to get into chatrooms from any location which ensures that conversations about questions of the day remain ongoing and current in real time.
Some of the factors that have contributed to the emergence of mobile chatrooms include:
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Push Notifications: Additionally, notifications will notify users about a daily topic of interest that has been posted and will enhance user engagement.
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Instant Messaging Features: For instance due to social mobile app chatrooms incorporating messaging features instant messaging features make convenient discussions around daily topics easier.
Popular Topics and Niche Communities
While most chatrooms deal with broad-based popular topics that capture thousands and thousands of users’ interest, the same cannot be said of niche communities which constitute an integral part of the chatroom ecosystem. Usually, people cluster in small groups with specific topics or interests that are more specific than just the broad original topic. It could be a fan club dedicated to this or that serial or the IT trends. These focus communities allow their users to address such a trend in more detail rather than attract a wider audience.
Why Niche Popular Topics Are So Trending Today
Niche popular topics are on the rise owing to how different chatrooms can cater to the individual user’s needs. As users are looking for more focused content, such specific forums enable discussions that are not just skin-deep. This approach effectively sustains user interest by allowing them to interact with those who share their interests and have different spheres of passion.
Some other examples of niche popular topics are:
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Science and Fantasy Fiction: Chatrooms that are dedicated to everything from the latest picture books and motion pictures to fan artfanart creation.
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DIY And Crafting: These boards help people exchange tips, tutorials, and projects and form a constructive activity-oriented community.
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Fitness And Wellness: In recent years niche forums focused on fitness training, meal plans, and mental health discussions have become quite popular as well.
The Future of Popular Topics and Daily Topics
Popular topics as well as daily topics will always be at the center of interaction by the users. The competition for live and engaging content has been fuelled as many more lounges introduce real-time elements. This transformation brought to light the relevance of chatrooms in bridging the gap between physically distant people while engaging and maintaining the chat as to the current needs of internet users.
An Overview of How AI and Automation Boost Popular Topics
With the growth of AI technology, it has become common to see chatrooms coming up with more automated features to contain conversations that revolve around trending topics. For instance, with the use of AI, most chatrooms can now predict the topics that will be relevant at a certain time and recommend which threads to place or which subjects to discuss. Not only does this improve the experience of the users, but also it keeps the discussions being talked about new and more active than at any other time in history.
Some AI-driven strategies that help maintain popular topics include:
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Intelligent Topic Recommendations: When users feel at ease sharing topics with others, they call upon popularity prediction strategies, which are employed by AI algorithms seeking user trends and behavior toward potential arguments within the community.
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Moderation: As more users join the chatrooms, particularly due to topics of the day or interest, there is a need to create and maintain a positive ambiance in the chatroom. Chat moderation tools based on AI will keep out inappropriate content during the day to ensure that topics remain respectful.
Gamification and User Rewards for Engaging in Daily Topics
Chatrooms are looking for ways to attract users’ attention towards the daily topics, thus, trying to include gamification features in topics. These features include but are not limited to, awarding users with points, badges, and leaderboards to individuals who contribute some reasonable discussions daily to increase and retain users. This makes chatting fun and encourages participation in all activities of the chat community.
Key gamification elements observed in contemporary chatrooms include:
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Star Contribution Leaderboards: Top contributors of the day for these topics are displayed.
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Badges: Users are rewarded with virtual badges for inverting or contributing in to hot debatable subjects.
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Exclusive Education: The best users are allowed to participate in special sections of the website’s top level based on their activity.
Predicting the Next Upsurge of Popular Topics
Both the chatroom administrators as well as the users constantly seek future prevailing subjects. If it is a burning social issue, new technology, or entertainment, being able to do so is precisely what may bolster the attractiveness of chatrooms to their users. Persistent growth in the volume and activity of these audiences will be experienced by those resources that promptly create therapeutic forums for trending topics.
Most Popular Chatroom Topics That Will Certainly Emerge In the Future:
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Sustainable Living and Eco-Friendly Practices: With the increasing global awareness of climate change, there will be a shift in the direction that chat room discussions will focus on sustainable living. They will focus mainly on sharing ideas, and materials, and talking about ways of living sustainably.
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Blockchain and Cryptocurrency: The technology of blockchain and the whole trend of cryptocurrency is still likely to be an ever-enticing subject among fellow forum members.
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Mental Health and Well-Being: As the world continues to focus on mental health issues, there will be more and more discussion forums on the sources of the problems self-care, and support which will be a very popular subject
Conclusion
The reason many chat rooms are still being used is because there are always interesting issues and current topics. It is through these conversations that users can interact with each other and share their experiences and people even establish relationships. Busy discussing current trends in newscasts, participating in comparative analysis of the newest dramas, or just posting their most important events, chat rooms have finally emerged as a hub for almost everyone who goes online. Talk to strangers in free chat rooms online without registration and meet new people and make new friends in anonymous text chat rooms as well as voice chat with random people and video chatrooms online. Talk With Stranger gives you access to thousands of free chat sites and free chat apps where you can talk to strangers and chat with strangers online without making any account. You can also make audio calls to strangers and phone call strangers online and chat free with random people.
A popular topic serves as a lure for a majority of newcomers, while a daily topic prevents the conversation from going stale. They constitute the keystones of a new order where the peripheral theoretical boundary actively exists as users all over the world converge, interact, and seek connection.
The landscape of chat rooms is very broad, rapidly changing, and accurately represents the current level of interest of the users. No matter whether you want to participate in discussions about popular matters around the world or express your opinion concerning other topics of the current day, a random chatroom like TalkWithStranger represents a great opportunity to stay in touch with diverse people.