@pe7erpark3r said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
@Electrifying-Guy said in Fact check with Pet: Why atheism is irrational:
When I will get that printed version I would discuss it
Okay! Looking forward to it. :blush:
I couldn't find that message's old copy because Christians barely reside here.
For one second, I assumed it was her original revelation in 1991. She may have multiple personality disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder or may be she was also a cunning personality. Moreover I can say he copied those astrologers, change some words and labelled Jesus. (Just like you tried to trace uncaused cause and labelled it with God. But radioactive decay of uranium atom has no cause ) September 2001 attacks were predicted by Nostradamus (an astrologer) in 1555.
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude,
Fire approaches the great new city
Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up
When they want to have verification from the Normans.
Baba Vanga predicted tsunami, 9/11 and end of universe. In future, don't get easily misguided by anyone.
She predicted 9/11 attacks in 1989 on USA (two years ago of that cunning girl's astrology)
Check it out for more
Yes of-course God was unable to save his people from his own fake astrology because he never made one. If he really made one, why he would not save his children ?
These are works of your merciful God who loves his children-
He drowned the entire population (Gen6)
He ordered the Israelites to commit genocide (passages of Joshua)
He hardened Pharaoh’s heart in order to kill more Egyptians (Exodus 9:12)
He condemned everyone to eternal damnation simply for lack of belief (John 3:18)
God's mercy is about letting you be with Him. He gives himself. And he does that in all the pain, sorrow and fear. This is when we are closest to him. When we carry our cross.
Now I will talk with philosophy
When you were talking about mercy I could bring up some data.
36.9 million people are suffering from HIV/AIDS.
300 million people are suffering from depression.
163.5 per 1,00,000 men and women are dying from cancer.
One in four Americans develop insomnia each year.
Where is his mercy ? Why doesn't he give his mercy to them ? Were you trying to say all those people rejected God ? Those all are not evil.
Recently tropical storm Barry started lashing Louisiana. 90 percent people follow christian religion, 2 percent people follow other religions there. Why authorities rushed to close floodgates and raise the barriers around the New Orleans metropolitan area of 1.3 million people for fear of disastrous flooding ? Why couldn’t people trust on their God ? People who were living low-lying areas along the Gulf-coast were told to leave and finally they left. Why they left those areas ? Why didn’t God save them ? Prayers went in vain. Eh ?
He is unable to stop even a human-caused natural disaster flood. He is an impotent
I wished you could show me some valid scientific experimental evidences like this for god's existence. Even though their difficulty level is high but afterall a single difficult valid experiment can make someone a theist.
Don't call imagination is a fact or atheism is a belief like an illiterate fuck.
Belief is an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without evidence.
You believe that god is true without any evidence. You have just an evidence 'your faulty bible' that's first edition does not exist anymore and Moses doesn't even know how and when God made Adam and Eve. Moreover, you had only a 'first cause' argument which can be easily denied by quantum physics.
We have a great amount of evidences which are demonstratively valid. We have evidences that this universe is made from dark matter(26.8%), atoms(4.9%) and dark energy(4.9%). A real scientist cannot prove bigbang because it is impossible for him to bring those conditions in lab. Asking for prove bigbang in lab is senseless. But he holds none evidence against it either. We have 98% evidences and 2 percent are remaining only. I don’t need all that superstitious nonsense. I look over the evidence—and see no reason to conclude a god exists. No magic, no superstition, no faith required. I'm an empiricist and those evidences are enough for me.
You tried to prove that atheists killed more people than theists. By the way Communism was not started for the name of atheism. Nazism wanted to transform the subjective consciousness of the German people—their attitudes, values and mentalities—into a single-minded, obedient "national community". The Nazis believed they would therefore have to replace class, religious and regional allegiances. Stalin was brought up in an Orthodox Seminar as a Christian; and he became a new kind of Tsar,—with absolute power.
Thirty percent of the wars started for religious reasons. And rest 70% were not started in the name of atheism, but rather border disputes, land conquering, revenge, or for resources.
Around 800 AD, Charlemagne, Emperor of the “Holy Roman Empire” slaughtered 4500 Saxons, specifically on religious grounds,—because they would not renounce their harmless ancestral gods. Nothing directly to do with politics, but only of having a rival religion.
99.9% of the inmates were religious in USA
I cannot answer this question for I do not know Spinoza well enough. But he clearly was wrong about claiming that scientific research could lead you to God :shrug:
His God was nature and the scientific research really leaded him to God. It was his personal God thou.
This one is true. But it does not disprove God.
Every effect has its precedent cause. We can name anything the first cause to prevent the infinite chain further. Even I can write down my name instead. How doesn't it disprove the God ? Can you say I'm God with first cause argument ? Do you hold any evidences to put God in first cause ? After-all we have matter in our body, isn't it enough for showing first animal (not human) was effect of it ? I take the name of Animal because there was no first human.
However it requires you again to reason about God's reasoning, which – in case He exists – is not something that we could possibly do and arrive at the truth...
Then what is the reason of this debate ? When your human reasoning is not enough to conclude what God is, how you can call yourself a theism. You are a skeptic.
It is also true, that since there is no disproof of God, and quite a bit of evidence of things He does (however inconclusive), it is also rational to assume that God is.
None is rational evidence of him except of fear and terror. I bet you became christian after reading some genesis of punishment. He does things because people have some physiological disorders. Christians buy anything on the name of religion. Want me to show a video ?
So I would say it is fair to call atheism a belief, just as it is fair to call not believing in God rational.
Ahem ahem. Then show me a single demonstrable evidence of him. We have evidences, you have nothing. Scientists have discovered that the matter which planets, people, galaxies, plants, animals have, is 13 billion years old. This is a fact, dude ! Particles appear, reappear, disappear in empty space too. Duh, the whole process can be measured with lamb shift and casimir effect. God is not measurable !
"All kinds of" is an idiom. It does not have to mean "all", it usually means "many". This was just a side note of little importance, please forget about it.
I gave you an example of probability and see you are agree with me. The first definition was actually based on probability.
In fact christianity is the only religion that grows through conversion in our time and age. There are 10.000 babtisms every day in china alone.
Christian is a non-logical religion. I can point out 100 contradictions and whole book is full of errors and omissions. Read some books of early Jainism and early Buddhism. You will find some logical things in them.
This is not true. People always believed things. Religion is as old as humans. People have wondered what happens after death forever. People exploiting this deep need inside people's heart came after the fact.
People used to think the Earth was the center of the universe and that the entire cosmos revolved around it. We now realize, however, that this was just something dreamed up by ignorant people who knew very little about the universe and our place in it. Well, at least most of us realize this today.
People used to think that diseases were caused by “bad air” and that mental illness was the result of demonic possession. We now realize, however, that this was just something dreamed up by ignorant people who knew very little about the universe and our place in it. Well, at least most of us realize this today. And yet, some people cling to the concept of “gods” despite the obvious fact that it was also the product of ignorant superstition dreamed up by people living thousands of years ago who knew very little about the universe and our place in it. It gives them comfort, it gives them hope, they are indoctrinated to believe in it from birth, and the very concept of “God” has been redefined along the way to supposedly make it impossible to ever prove that God doesn’t exist.
Last but not least, I don't know when you reply it. Can you prove in lab how you were born ? It is impossible for bring those conditions in lab when you were born. I don't hold none evidence against your existence either. Same logic goes for bigbang because it is impossible for bring those galaxies, planets and other conditions back in lab. Bigbang is unable to prove that our universe is multiverse, finite and infinite so you cannot definitely say first law is only applicable to this universe. We can assume matter was primary cause because all those planets, galaxies, humans, plants, animals are consisted of matter. We have seen God was not fitting in secondary cause (he must have a body to work on that and he could not form final cause 'world' in parts just like a potter forms a pot into 6 parts) and we have 13 billion years old matter. How matter could come into us if matter was not primary cause ?
By the way you think this law is limited to only our universe and your god is transcendent cause, then why would he waste so much matter to create empty space ? Even if multiverse exist and he breaks natural laws, he cannot be secondary cause again.
If he was first cause, then this whole first-cause argument is suffering from existential fallacy.
P1-God creates humans (your imagined assumption)
P2- Humans create cars ( A fact)
C-God creates cars (denied by fact humans made cars)
Your conclusion with first cause- God creates everything (existential fallacy)
If we again put him in first cause, we need to give him some properties like omnipotence, omniscience, goodness. After-all we want to end the chain with a terminator and to prevent infinite regress. Just because we want one term to terminate the chain and we can label it with any name. God is omniscient, he must already know how he is going to intervene to change the course of history using his omnipotence. But that means he can't change his mind about his intervention, which means he is not omnipotent. Therefore, there is no reason to put him in first cause. Those properties are conflicting each-other in every sense.
Bigbang was a process in which everything started from a photon without violating any law. We need two things to create this universe- 1. matter, 2. space. Matter is a stuff that has a mass. With equation of E=MC^2 mass can be thought of as a kind of energy, and vice versa. At the moment of the Big Bang, an entire universe came into existence, and with it space. It all inflated, just like a balloon being blown up. Questions can be raised up like where that space and energy came from ? How can something appear out of nothing ? This is the mystery which Bigbang could not answer. For revealing this mystery, natural laws demand here - “negative energy”. E.G. Imagine a man wants to build a hill on a flat piece of land. The hill will represent the universe. To make this hill he digs a hole in the ground and uses that soil to dig his hill. But of course he’s not just making a hill—he’s also making a hole, in effect a negative version of the hill. The stuff that was in the hole has now become the hill, so it all perfectly balances out. This is the principle behind what happened at the beginning of the universe. When bigbang produced a vast amount of (+)ve energy, it produced (-)ve energy simultaneously. The (+)ve and the (-)ve sum up to 0, this is again a natural law. For ensuring everything, adds up to o, we can glimpse at our space. Space is vast amount of (-)ve energy. Today, negative energy is there. Everything sums up to 0, so we do not require a creator or God here. That total energy of 0 does not violate first law. It is a fact again. This universe is ultimate free launch. People like you ask who caused photon ? I answer them nobody. Cause-effect relationship states an event precedes other event. Then first event is the cause of second event. Time did not exist before bigbang. It is impossible when cause can exist without time. God cannot be cause of this universe. Just because time did not exist, there is no time for God to make the universe in. Also, natural laws are natural laws, they imply for everyone. If God violated those laws, they would not be called laws.