Change my Mind.

[D1Vine]

This post is deleted!

[ALLILEY]

@DIVine elaborate señorito

[R Sharma]

@ALLILEY it's already elaborated 😂 you just need to apply your brain😂

[ALLILEY]

@R-Sharma rood T_T

[R Sharma]

@ALLILEY said in Change my Mind.:

@R-Sharma rood T_T
I'm not rude 😅 I'm just telling you it's a debatable question .its not like any other post that pops up here regularly

[ALLILEY]

@R-Sharma aight calm down I won't fight T_T

[R Sharma]

@DIVine answer a simple question. Why do you feel Islam is not safe for women?

[R Sharma]

@DIVine I think Islam is safe for women by observing India Muslim women because:

1. Muslim girls are my clAssmates.
2. Some of my neighbours are Muslim their husbands treated them well.
3. Ik I may be wrong but some of the recent changes in the conditions of Muslims mAkes me say that Islam is safe for women.

div pls answer my question too

[R Sharma]

@ALLILEY I'm not in the mood to pick a fight. Sorry if you get offended by me

[ObviouslyLucifer]

According to Asma Lamrabet who is a Moroccan doctor, Islamic feminist and author.

"One crucial, unequivocal verse in the Qur’an lays the ground for the concept of equality between men and women: “The believers, men and women, are allies (awliya) of one another. They enjoin the ‘common good’ (al ma‘ruf) and forbid the bad (al munkar), they observe prayers (salat) and give charitable alms (zakat) and obey God and his Prophet”; Qur’an, 9:71."

Lamrabet is a third way feminist, who re-interpret the sacred texts in order to show women as independent beings rather than relational to men. She examines the sacred texts in a scholarly manner, while remembering the cultural context in which they were written.

Furthermore according to her . The Qur’an is unambiguous, and stresses emphatically this close cooperation or wilayah between men and women in socio-political action, before generalizing it to acts of religious ritual.

Dr. Sayed Muhammed Hussein Fadlallah , the Lebanese scholar, reaffirms the egalitarian vision of the Qur’an, which encourages women to be involved in all areas of social and political life, in contrast to the traditional exclusivist understanding that tends to reduce women to their function as wives and mothers, a role that, while important, cannot constitute their unique horizon in life.

Islam certainly has a lot of provisions which promotes over protection, polygamy, violence against women. But these articles were written in 6th century AD and scholarly interpretation on these today actually paints a better picture of at least some provisions in Islam.

So the problem today is improper interpretation about provisions by some theologians, thus we can say the interpreters are wrong and not the religion.

A scholarly interpretation of religious scriptures using a rational attitude can actually help us make a better society. So instead of blaming religions we should hold the individuals who interpret religions in a reductive manner to benefit their cause, accountable.

And change our mind about strongly held stereotypes about religion.

[R Sharma]

@DIVine thanks div for enlightening me 😇😇

[Quatre]

@DIVine said in [Change my Mind.]

Oh boy, I must say, the pedophiles of the world are following the wrong religion; COME ON PEDOS FOLLOW ISLAM ITS GOOD FOR YOU ALL! :v:

You’re going to get a lot of feminazis replying on this post

YAY! Ban the women who are on periods! Thank you islam :v:

Excuse me?

[Zack Williamson]

@DIVine
Most religions’ scriptures have contradictions about their ethics i.e. men-women rights, polygamy, adultery etc. I think they should publish new books now. I take literal meaning of every verse, I do not interpret or misinterpret them because it would be waste of my time. The Quran is not free from those contradictions, errors and omissions. After-all it is written by human/(s) like you and me.
Non-contradictory verses for treating wives- having both is counter-intuitive, not contradictory--

1. You can marry up to four women, if you put equability among them
   And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.[Quran 4:3] [Muhammad, the founder of islam had 11 wives]
2. it states equality is impossible and 4:3 does never come into actually act
   Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so). But turn not altogether away (from one), leaving her as in suspense. If ye do good and keep from evil, lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful [Quran 4:129]

Now it’s time for contradictions-

1. It says to beat your wives when they disobey you-

“Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.” (Quran 4:34) [I am 100% sure this verse is actually used in the context, not out of the context, none of the muslim can defend this verse]

2. It states to show your mercy towards women-
   O you have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take (back) part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them – perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes them therein much good. [Quran 4:19]

3. It states both men and women are equally forgivable by Allah-
   Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing man and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember allah often and the women who do so- for them allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward. [Quran 33:35]

4. It states again both men and women will be awarded equally-
   Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer- We will surely cause him to live a good life, and we will surely give them their reward [in the hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do. [Quran 16:97]

5. It states menstrual women are impure and Allah does not like impure persons-
   And they ask you about menstruation. Say, “it is harm, so keep away from wives during menstruation. And don't approach them until they are pure. And when they’ve purified themselves, then come to em from where Allah has ordained for you. Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves [Quran 2:223]

6. It states authority of men over women -
   Divorced women remain in waiting for three periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have more right to take them back in this [period] if they want reconciliation. And due to the wives is similar to what is expected of them, according to what is reasonable. But the men have a degree over them [in responsibility and authority]. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. [Quran 2:228]

The authentic translations of verses you can find on quran.com. Most of the religions criticize one-another, therefore they insert their spices in those translations, for instance 2:222 is definitely misinterpreted. I have taken all those interpretations from above website. You can find a verse with this address i.e. quran.com/2/122. Substitute 2/122 with other genesis for other genesis' translations.

An evil Muslim will act according to evil verses
A good Muslim will act according to good verses
Indeed, both evil and good muslims are motivated by their holy book. Therefore it is reasonable to say they treat women with inequality/equality for the name of their religion/God.

[mocker]

@DIVine
You must have a mind first then I can change it🤣

[Quatre]

@DIVine said in Change my Mind.:

@KATholic said in Change my Mind.:

@DIVine said in [Change my Mind.]

Hey don't blame me, I'm just following the rule book!

Show me the rule book

[A Former User]

In this case i am agree with ya. I cant do something "harsh" Or even hurt this fragile human being. Once when they said "I SAY YOU BLA BLA", then i did it like they wanted (even it was cost all of my life)

[pe7erpark3r]

@ObviouslyLucifer said in Change my Mind.:

According to Asma Lamrabet who is a Moroccan doctor, Islamic feminist and author.

"One crucial, unequivocal verse in the Qur’an lays the ground for the concept of equality between men and women: “The believers, men and women, are allies (awliya) of one another. They enjoin the ‘common good’ (al ma‘ruf) and forbid the bad (al munkar), they observe prayers (salat) and give charitable alms (zakat) and obey God and his Prophet”; Qur’an, 9:71."

Lamrabet is a third way feminist, who re-interpret the sacred texts in order to show women as independent beings rather than relational to men. She examines the sacred texts in a scholarly manner, while remembering the cultural context in which they were written.

Furthermore according to her . The Qur’an is unambiguous, and stresses emphatically this close cooperation or wilayah between men and women in socio-political action, before generalizing it to acts of religious ritual.

Dr. Sayed Muhammed Hussein Fadlallah , the Lebanese scholar, reaffirms the egalitarian vision of the Qur’an, which encourages women to be involved in all areas of social and political life, in contrast to the traditional exclusivist understanding that tends to reduce women to their function as wives and mothers, a role that, while important, cannot constitute their unique horizon in life.

Islam certainly has a lot of provisions which promotes over protection, polygamy, violence against women. But these articles were written in 6th century AD and scholarly interpretation on these today actually paints a better picture of at least some provisions in Islam.

So the problem today is improper interpretation about provisions by some theologians, thus we can say the interpreters are wrong and not the religion.

A scholarly interpretation of religious scriptures using a rational attitude can actually help us make a better society. So instead of blaming religions we should hold the individuals who interpret religions in a reductive manner to benefit their cause, accountable.

It seems Islam has the same problem as christianity: scholars go and declare the opposite of what is written in the scriptures as the correct interpretation of the scriptures. As with christianity their arguments are rather weak.

However I do agree that the interpretation that these scholars have of islam – despite being far from the quran itself – indeed benifit society.

I mean if you really took the quran literally you would also have to take into account the following:

God created the world through his word
Jesus is the word of God (thus he is not created?)
Jesus was conceived not from a man, only from the Virgin Mary
Jesus performed miracles (in contrast to Muhammad)
Jesus ascended into heaven
Jesus will come back at the end of times (Muhammad will not)
and if you don't understand anything in the Quran you are advised – by the Quran – to read the bible...

So it is better to follow the modern interpretation of the quran and not take every word in it too seriously... or you might end up christian :joy:

And change our mind about strongly held stereotypes about religion.

Our time is fighting stereotypes on any level. And I fully agree, that you should not apply a stereotype ever to judging an individual. However stereotypes do develop naturally (from statistics): 90% of islamic terrorists do look a certain way. 90% of islamic countries have laws that favor men over women. I think it is fair to say, that islam as it is widely practiced does in large parts meet the stereotype. And I think it would be good if it didn't!

But are you sure that the religion of those scholars you quoted is still the same religion? I mean I do call christianity a religion too, but there are various christian denominations/sects, that differ so strong from the original teaching, that I'm not sure it's entirely fair to put them in the same box... Take the "Westboro Babtist Church": they basically advocate for the death sentence of gay people. This is so unchristian that it screams to heaven ("kill the sinner" is so not "who has no sin throw the first stone").

[ObviouslyLucifer]

@pe7erpark3r said in Change my Mind.:

It seems Islam has the same problem as christianity: scholars go and declare the opposite of what is written in the scriptures as the correct interpretation of the scriptures. As with christianity their arguments are rather weak.
However I do agree that the interpretation that these scholars have of islam – despite being far from the quran itself – indeed benifit society.

India is facing the same thing, except instead of scholars India has courts leading the narrative of better interpretation for benefiting the society.

They have decriminalized homosexuality, declared parochial adultery laws as unconstitutional which treated women as chattel, and broke down hegemony of certain temple trusts and castes about letting women enter the sanctum sanctorum!

So it is better to follow the modern interpretation of the quran and not take every word in it too seriously... or you might end up christian :joy:

As one of my favorite scholars Vir Das has stated they should mix it up bring forth a new religion called Chrislam where you get holidays for both EID and Christmas!

:joy:

And change our mind about strongly held stereotypes about religion.

Our time is fighting stereotypes on any level. And I fully agree, that you should not apply a stereotype ever to judging an individual. However stereotypes do develop naturally (from statistics): 90% of islamic terrorists do look a certain way. 90% of islamic countries have laws that favor men over women. I think it is fair to say, that islam as it is widely practiced does in large parts meet the stereotype. And I think it would be good if it didn't!

Iran is pretty much run by the clerics even today, and Saudi still has some influence of the clerics, however, Mohammad Bin Salman (Crown prince of Saudi Arabia) is doing some changes.
Recent ones include permission to drive by themselves, permission to start a business and travel without permission of the senior most male member of the family. No compulsay abaya for travelers. He still has a long way to go, but its a good start!

But are you sure that the religion of those scholars you quoted is still the same religion? I mean I do call christianity a religion too, but there are various christian denominations/sects, that differ so strong from the original teaching, that I'm not sure it's entirely fair to put them in the same box... Take the "Westboro Babtist Church": they basically advocate for the death sentence of gay people. This is so unchristian that it screams to heaven ("kill the sinner" is so not "who has no sin throw the first stone").

You should join the new Satanist movement!

:smiling_imp:

[A Former User]

HERE IT IS AN INTELLECTUAL TOPIC aw.
I think old fellas already grow up rn.