What do you think will happen after we die?
@ash_uchiha Okay! I respect your beliefs.
@jacob55 fml. Sorry my dude there seemed to be a couple grammatical and orthographical errors in my response. I am checking if there are any more but i think i got them all. Go ahead and respond to my counter arguments if you feel like it
@jacob55 most importantly even though everyone has the right to offend and be offended because to discuss any controversial topic you have to risk offending people, thank you for not getting offended and taking my criticisms in such a chillaxed manner
@thestrangest To be fair, I said I believe in God. I didn't say my God. I will not ever denounce anyone's deity. As you pointed out, my evidence is insufficient at best to prove anything, or at the very least to change your mind. Allah, Odin, Zeus, Jupiter (Italian Zeus), Jesus, Ellohim, Yahweh, and the list goes on...
God, to me, is Heavenly Father. What the name or who follows that name can be extremely different but just as valid as my convictions. Because it is their personal revelation. I belong to a religion (I know, shame on me haha) and my faith and understanding of God are my own, separate even from my parents. I'm flawed, but I strive to be my best self.
Hmmmmm, ok I'll just stop talking now because I've been rambling for long enough but yeah. I think you already know what i think of believing in things without evidence, oh i didn't tell you already? Ok
Here's my question...
When we use the 2nd meaning(from the definition of faith in the dictionary):strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
Do you NEED faith to believe in your religion, as in, can you believe in your religion without faith?
Usually the answer is no
i didn't chose to be an atheist, it happened because i saw no sufficient evidence behind the religious claims, if there was evidence i would believe and of course faith is not a reliable pathway to truth since it can lead you to true and wrong conclusions with incredible inaccuracy so using it is useless
Why use an UNRELIABLE PATHWAY TO TRUTH to believe that something is TRUE. I don't think that's a good idea
I think you got my point. I'll stop talking now i think I've said enough, i could talk for days about this topic so i think i should wait for the next challenger. I'm going to sleep, good day/night/whatever
@hephaestus so how is having sex with Aphrodite working out for ya?
@thestrangest Ares is cuckolding him.
For him this situation must suck, just like Aphrodite sucks off Ares. Lolol, ok i should stop. Though it was cool when Hephaistos made a trap for both of them and shamed them infront of all the gods, what a legend
@layla that’s exactly it, I don’t believe too hard in it, but I like to think it’s a possibility
@martin_eden Interesting. Thank you for sharing your opinion!
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@layla What does God have to do with death or with anything in general?
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@layla Nice to hear it.
Cheesecake.Lesb last edited by
@cheesecake-lesb My grandma is a christian
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@layla i don't really either
Martin_Eden last edited by Martin_Eden
People’s beliefs are irrelevant. Death is the embodiment of objective reality. Wishful thinking is the embodiment of subjectivity.
Maybe we will be somewhere we don't know.
I already answered this 7 months ago from my previous account, i still stand behind what i said
@ said in Is There Life After Death?:
@sarah i don't believe there is anything after you're dead. I believe it feels just like you felt before you were born
@ said in Is There Life After Death?:
@alwaysstranger LOL do you know how did it feel before you were born ?
Lol you have no idea what is gonna happen after you are dead.
You too. But i believe there's nothing because according to scientific knowledge my consciousness is just a collection of neurons which'll stop working when I'm dead
++therefore rendering my consciousness non existent meaning i will no longer exist
Read Quran or Bible! They all tell the same thing about this topic.
I'm an ex-muslim. So i have nothing new to read. I think I'll prefer science over religion and logic over faith anyday but you choose whatever you want
I believe that people have a soul. I believe that after I die that I will be in a spiritual state here on Earth. Then, when the time comes, I will be judged and go to my Eternal home, be it heaven or hell.
HMMMM. Let's go over each one of these things' scientific status
Soul-it's location and purpose is undefined and as far as we know we don't need a soul to explain anything therefore according to ockham's razor it doesn't exist
A spiritual state after death located on earth then heaven/hell-without souls you can't have a spiritual state, there is no proof for any of this stuff and this is neither a moral belief system as explained here:
"There are about 9 million children under 5 that die every year. Picture an asian tsunami of the sort we saw in 2004 killing a quarter of a million every 10 days, all of them under 5. About 24 thousand children a day, about a thousand an hour and 17 or so a minute and that means that before you can get to the end of this comment a which will take about 2 min 34 children would have died in horrible terror and agony. These children were generally only born to suffer and die since they hadn't had much time as conscious beings before they suffered horrible deaths and died. Picture the parents of these children which most likely believe in god and are praying this second for their children to be saved, their prayers will not be answered. Any god who would allow children by the millions to die and suffer this way, for their parents to grieve this way either can do nothing to help them or doesn't care to, he is therefore either impotent or malevolent, even worse than that most of these parents, many of these parents will be going to hell because they're praying to the wrong god. Just think about that. Through no fault of their own they were born in the wrong culture, where they got the wrong theology and they missed the revelation.ok there are 1.2 billion people in india at this moment, most of them are hindus, most of them therefore polytheists. No matter how good these people are, they are doomed. If you were praying to the monkey god hanoman you are doomed. You'll be tortured in hell for eternity. Now is there the slightest evidence for this? NO, it just says so in Mark 9, Matthew 13 and revelation 14. Perhaps you'll remember from the lord of the rings it says that when the elves die they go to valanore so that they can be reborn in middle earth, i say that as a point of comparison. So god created the world knowing everything, he created the cultural isolation of the hindus, he engineered the circumstances of their deaths in ignorance of revelation and then he created the penalty for this ignorance which is an eternity of conscious torment in fire. On the other hand your run if the mill serial killer in America who spent his life raping and torturing children need only come to jesus on death row and after a final meal of fried chicken he's going to spend an eternity in heaven."
How does this belief system encourage doing "good"?, how is it moral? It doesn't. Much over there are many sexist, homophobic, violent and slavery supporting verses in the Bible
My biggest question to anyone that doesn't believe in God is, "If science supports 'survival of the fittest' as a base means of living (I'm stronger, wealthier, attractive therefore I succeed) then where does good and evil/right and wrong come from?"
Lol, easy stuff. I base morality on the preservation of people's well being and the prevention of unnecessary suffering. Suffering is neurological and can be quantified using neurology. As you can see i define evil as anything that ruins/worsens human well being. Now you have to understand that for a person to use such a morality he first has to SUBJECTIVELY(not objectively, because there is no such thing as an objective morality) care about well being and the same goes for Christians because to base morality on the bible you have to subjectively care about what the bible says, morality based on the bible literally makes slavery, genocides, violence, sexism, sadomasochism(loving someone you fear) which are all commanded by god in the bible moral and so do all other Abrahamic religions, here are the verses from the Bible:
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)
“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)
“In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:27)
VIOLENCE AND SADOMASOCHISM(loving a person you feer):
“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)
“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)
“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)
“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)
“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)
‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)
Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.
Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word “servant”, “bondservant”, or “manservant” instead of “slave” to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn’t mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.
The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?
The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and has sex with them!
What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
And these are just a couple of verses
P.S. usually after i show a Christian these verses he tells me that it doesn't matter because most of these are in the old testament, well the 10 commandments are also in the old testament so do you also not want the 10 commandements? And by the way, there are no scenarios where a just and all good god would say “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” or “In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” or “Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” and a lot of other verses. And if you are going to say that you don't believe in these verses because they are in the old testament (by the way there are a couple verses i mentioned outside the old testament but k) you'd have to say that you also don't believe in the 10 commandments since they are also in the old testament
That's not only an evil idea but the type of idea that causes some muslims (Islam is an Abrahamic religion) to join ISIS and think that what they do is moral since it's also commanded in their holy book which is the quran….. which might i add says that Allah is the same as your God just that jesus was only a prophet. A better way to base morality is on the preservation of people's well being and the prevention of unnecessary suffering. Suffering is neurological and can be quantified using neurology.
Why did we feel bad about taking something from someone that wasn't ours, that we didn't earn? Why do we feel guilty? >I focus on the negative connotation because accomplishment feels good whether you did something right or wrong.
I'll happily sum up the 2.5 min video for you if you do not allow articles and videos in debates just like i do but i prefer if you watch it, though you can just ask me to sum it up.
It is the guilty feeling that interests me.
We have perfectly fine explanations for where guilt comes from, ofcourse we know what part of the brain causes it, Shin et al. (2000) used PET imaging to examine the neuroanatomical correlates of guilt. They conclude:
In the Guilt versus Neutral comparison, regional cerebral blood flow (rCBF) increases occurred in anterior paralimbic regions of the brain: bilateral anterior temporal poles, anterior cingulate gyrus, and left anterior insular cortex/inferior frontal gyrus.
And even some evolutionary psychologists theorize that guilt and shame evolved into the brain because they helped maintain beneficial relationships, such as reciprocal altruism. If a person feels guilty when he harms another, or even fails to reciprocate kindness, he is more likely not to harm others or become too selfish. In this way, he reduces the chances of retaliation by members of his tribe, and thereby increases his survival prospects, and those of the tribe or group. As with any other emotion, guilt can be manipulated to control or influence others. As a highly social animal living in large groups that are relatively stable, we need ways to deal with conflicts and events in which we inadvertently or purposefully harm others. If someone causes harm to another, and then feels guilt and demonstrates regret and sorrow, the person harmed is likely to forgive. Thus, guilt makes it possible to forgive, and helps hold the social group together.
No need for any supernatural mumbu jumbo to explain that
Right and wrong only hold up for humanity as far as social constructs.
We can base right and wrong on Science as i already explained, infact Neurology PhD Sam Harris explains how that works in "The Moral Landscape".
It is very rare to find animals with similar behaviors of justice.
True but that's because no other species is as socially connected as we are, for example, look around you, everything you see has been built by different people specialised in building that exact type of thing for for human use (houses, cups, computers...)
Different factors and variables are always allowed, but with human history it is a constant. Right and wrong. Either faking a deity is WAY too easy or people have to be incredibly stupid.
It is waaayyy too easy and people are incredibly stupid, religions with big followings are still being made up to this day, a good recent example is Scientology, and historians say that there might have been up to 10 million different versions of god(I intentionally do not write god with a capital G) in history.
I mean really, really, really stupid.
A significant number if people still believe that the earth is flat...
It doesn't make sense.
Things do not have to make sense to be true, look up what a superposition of an electron is.
What does make sense, to me, is feeling something in my heart that is beyond me.
Atheists feel that too. Spiritual feelings are not just for theists, infact that same Neurologist i was talking about wrote a book called "Waking up : A Guide To Spirituality Without Religion"
If I have a problem and I can't figure it out so I pray and get an answer later that helps...
Hum, so god personally speaks to you, how interesting(how is this different from schizophrenia):
Was I that smart to figure it out on my own or was it inspiration?
It is another word that ends with -ation, indoctrination.
If you don't believe in God, I'm okay with that.
I am not ok with believing in god, i hate theism, but it is just an ideology, it is ok to hate ideologies but NOT PEOPLE. The average IQ difference between a theist and an atheist is 7 points most likely because theists use critical thinking less(since, since the indoctrination a person went through, they are taught not to criticise their theological ideas and those who do...... become atheists)
I believe that I have a loving Heavenly Father.
You believe in an invisible sky daddy, i don't care what you believe in, I care if you have a good reason to believe what you believe.
I believe He knows me and loves me. I believe that God loves all His children.
You believe in an invisible sky daddy, i don't care what you believe in, I care if you have a good reason to believe what you believe. As far as we know, there is no god, none, not one.
I invite anyone, if they want to, to pray and ask God if He is there. Really mean it, pray with real intent. It may not be immediate, it may take a moment, but I know that if you are genuine that you will receive an answer. Don't take silence either. Silence has always told me I'm not doing enough.
Why don't you pray and tell him to talk to me. I'm not gonna spend my time mind washing myself. I used to be a muslim (which means that i believed in a different version of god than yours) and i had the same experiences, you'd think if you believed in the wrong god then you'd have no experiences, or do experiences not mean anything because there's no way to prove that they're not just in your head(infact the opposite has been tested and verified)? Because I'm leaning towards that possibility.
@jacob55 i finished adding the last thing to my response. Go ahead and read it
@thestrangest All wonderful points that decimate conventional theism with testing, logic, and reason. I am grateful for the input and information you have provided and I'm really impressed with how detailed you are. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as sarcastic, I don't want to. I have questioned my faith many times. Believe it or not, I have. Indoctrination is only as good an argument if someone hasn't questioned and sought other answers. Out of all my options, out of all the information I can be provided, it wasn't a book that proved to me that God is real. Not an invisible sky daddy, but a real personage.
A real person? Go on...
I'm not here to convince anybody of anything. If you know God isn't real, good.
Nobody can know if god is real or not, that's crazy.
I'm an agnostic atheist/anti-theist
Knowledge and belief are completely different
1st question, do you believe in god?
Possible answers(I'm...): a theist; an atheist
Theism=the belief in god. Atheism=the lack of belief in a god
2nd question, do you know that god exists or doesn't exist?
Possible answers(I'm...): a gnostic ;an agnostic
Gnosticism=having full knowledge of something. Agnosticism=not knowing 100% that something is true
Anti-theism=being against religion and the belief in a god.
All this when put together means that when i say i am an agnostic atheist/anti-theist i am saying that from what I've seen religion is harmful so i am against it (anti-theist) i do not know 100%(agnostic) that god doesn't exist but since there is no proof i automatically disbelieve in god(atheist)
People are good and people are bad regardless of God.
I'm sure that if ISIS or Osama Bin Laden didn't believe in Allah, the westboro baptist church didn't believe in god, Hitler didn't believe god was on his side... that would have been pretty nice but sure
That, I'm sure, we at least agree.
Thank you again for not ripping my ass apart.
You're welcome? I'm not that type of person, don't get me wrong, I'm not homophobic like Leviticus 20:13 :
But I'm not gay.
In all seriousness i wouldn't ever
go out of my waymake someone go out of their way to debate them on religion and god. I just personally believe that religion is nothing but poison to everything it comes across but i wouldn't bother anyone IRL to explain to them such a thing. I almost never talk about these things offline
@jacob55 thanks for being an agreeable(i hope I'm using this word correctly) person btw.
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@thestrangest I feel the same. Hey, I've got no proof but my own experiences that I'm inadequate at expressing or sharing. I really appreciate our discussion. And thank @layla for such an awesome subject!