@AllAboutGay @AllAboutGay said in Vex Debate: was Jesus historical?:
@pe7erpark3r Although i am a believer of LGBT, i have some gay opinions about other religions as well
I just came here to say here that Muslims are technically Christians.
You are definitely incorrect. Christians are considered as disbelievers in the Koran so neither is continuity of each-other-
They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent. (Surah- An-Nisa 5:17)
According to the bible, whoever will admit that Jesus is from god will not perish.
John 3:16 speaks about your verse so you are correct- or God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life
Islam agrees that Jesus is from god though it rejects the idea that the one and only god has any offspring. Islam gives high importance to Jesus.
Surah 5 verse no 72 states that whoever associates allah with Jesus will be burnt in fire. As you associate Allah with other Gods, you will be hunted by the Allah.
They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.
Surah 5 verse no 73 apparently states Christians alike other disbelievers will be punished. The Koran does not only reject the Biblical God but also rejects Christianity's trinity concept (God, holy spirit, son)-
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.
Surah 4 verse 47 states followers of religions other than Islam, will be disfigured-
O you who were given the Scripture, believe in what We have sent down [to Muhammad], confirming that which is with you, before We obliterate faces and turn them toward their backs or curse them as We cursed the sabbath-breakers. And ever is the decree of Allah accomplished.
According to a letter by prophet Muhammad (recorded in hadith books like Sahih Bukhari), islam is just a continuation and fulfilment of Christianity and not an entirely new religion.
You have distorted the real letter. I can quote the letter from Wikipedia-
Narrated 'Aisha and 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: When the last moment of the life of Allah's Apostle came he started putting his 'Khamisa' on his face and when he felt hot and short of breath he took it off his face and said, "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets." The Prophet was warning (Muslims) of what those had done.
Where does he say islam is not a new religion but continiuty of christianity ? Source- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_views_on_Christians
Also, many gay things done in the name of Islam or Christianity are not actually parts of Islam or Christianity but the results of misconceptions
I disagree with you. There is no misconception dude. The Islam and the Christianity are two biggest threats to humanity. Although I am not an anti-theist but everyone should know the truth. So first I will grab the Koran and will initialize to read verses-
Surah 4 verse no. 89 orders Muslims to kill disbelievers who try to change their views-
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
Surah 7 verse no 4 describes how many cities of disbelievers are destroyed by Muhammad-
And how many cities have We destroyed, and Our punishment came to them at night or while they were sleeping at noon.
Surah no 8 verses numbers 15 and 16 recommend Muslims to fight with disbelievers and whoever comes back from fight, will be tortured by the Allah-
O you who have believed, when you meet those who disbelieve advancing [for battle], do not turn to them your backs [in flight]. And whoever turns his back to them on such a day, unless swerving [as a strategy] for war or joining [another] company, has certainly returned with anger [upon him] from Allah, and his refuge is Hell - and wretched is the destination.
Surah 8 verse 39 recommends Muslims to persecute every religion except of Islam-
And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.
Surrah no 8 verses no 59 and 60 instruct Muslims to let not escaping the disbelievers even after a peaceful treaty with them-
And let not those who disbelieve think they will escape. Indeed, they will not cause failure [to Allah ]. And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
Surah 8 verse no 65 instructs Muslims to provoke disbelievers because Allah has hope that Muslims will win over disbelievers-
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
Surah 22 verse 15 suggests those people to suicide who think Allah won’t support Muhammad -
Whoever should think that Allah will not support [Prophet Muhammad] in this world and the Hereafter - let him extend a rope to the ceiling, then cut off [his breath], and let him see: will his effort remove that which enrages [him]?
Whole chapter 22 depicts Allah as a terrorist. It sounds like he is an al-qaedian terrorist- 22:1, 22:2, 22:3, 22:8, 22:9, 22:15, 22;18, 22:19-22, 22:25, 22:45, 22:47, 22:51, 22:55, 22:57, 22:72. This chapter is addressed to Jews, Christians and sabians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hajj
Surah 28 verses 62-64 state the Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom and every Muslim will see how Christians are punished-
And [warn of] the Day He will call them and say, "Where are My 'partners' which you used to claim? Those upon whom the word will have come into effect will say, "Our Lord, these are the ones we led to error. We led them to error just as we were in error. We declare our disassociation [from them] to You. They did not used to worship us. And it will be said, "Invoke your 'partners' " and they will invoke them; but they will not respond to them, and they will see the punishment. If only they had followed guidance!
Surah 61 verse 4 recommends Muslims to fight for the name of Allah-
Indeed, Allah loves those who fight in His cause in a row as though they are a [single] structure joined firmly.
Surah 25 verse 52 orders Muslims to fight against disbelievers-
So, (O Prophet), do not follow the unbelievers but engage in a mighty striving against them with this Qur'an.
Surah 48 verse 29 describes the people with Muhammad are forceful against disbelievers-
Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves.
The Allah orders the Muhammad to be enough harsh with disbelievers (Surah 66 verse 9)
O Prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.
Surah 60 verse 1 guides Muslims to fight against disbelievers and the disbelievers should not be supposed as friends in this Jihad-
O you who have believed, do not take My enemies and your enemies as allies, extending to them affection while they have disbelieved in what came to you of the truth, having driven out the Prophet and yourselves [only] because you believe in Allah, your Lord. If you have come out for jihad in My cause and seeking means to My approval, [take them not as friends]. You confide to them affection, but I am most knowing of what you have concealed and what you have declared. And whoever does it among you has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way.
There are total 532 (8.5 percent of the Koran) verses in the Koran reflecting the disdain for non-violence and cruelty, yet people think these all verses are misconceptions. However, this 8.5 percent verses do not include adultery, child abuse, homophobia, slavery, misogynistic, polygamy etc. You can check the authenticity of my verses from Quran.com.
Now I will grab the Bible. I will use English Standard Version or New International Version most of the times.
- The God commands for every Canaanite's ethnic cleansing. The Canaanites were the people who lived in Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan-
and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy (Deuteronomy 7:2 NIV) This is what the LORD of Hosts says: ‘I witnessed what the Amalekites did to the Israelites when they hindered them on their way up from Egypt. Now go and attack the Amalekites and devote to destruction all that belongs to them. Do not spare them, but put to death men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.’
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. (Deu 20:16)
- The Biblical God orders Christians not to do a treaty with other theists but when the opportunity comes for eating their sacrifice, Christians are allowed to eat them-
Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. (Exodus 34:15 NIV).
The Biblical God himself wrote this verse of second commandment-
The Lord said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. (Exodus 34:1)
- The Christians were instructed to kill disbelievers when someone else says them, he is going to worship other Gods-
If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Deu 13:6-10)
The Bible has total 1321 (4.25% of the total) verses for belligerence and many of them are addressed to disbelievers and nonbelievers. You can check all Biblical verse from https://www.biblegateway.com.
P.S. This was an off-topic discussion because the users had to argue about Jesus’ existence and non-existence. None of them is arguing with me so I decided to reply to an off-topic discussion. Otherwise I could love to reply you very early.
PPS. I do not care about the downvotes on this post. Many Christians and Muslims may frown upon it. I debate and write for the truth, not for the upvotes/downvotes.