Do you believe in souls?



  • Do you think humans have souls? Do you think animals have souls?
    Why or why not?



  • Under the hood, next to the engine, by that battery, just below the alternator.

    No, wait... That's the spleen. My mistake.



  • Nobody knows what consciousness is and how it works. It is most certainly connected to the brain (since you can make people unconscious through some drug obviously) but that does not mean that this is all to it.

    The philosopher Thomas Nagel thematisized this in "What is it like to be a bat?". If it is like anything to be a bat, then a bat is conscious. If it is not like anything to be a bat, if the bat just acts and reacts (including to sensations/feelings), then it is not conscious.

    We cannot know if animals really are conscious. Heck we cannot even know with absolute certainty that the person in front of us is conscious.

    So is it possible that consciousness might actually be something only we humans have? It is definitely a possibility.

    It is also possible that the brain actually is not capable of producing what we perceive as "I" (which some call an illusion anyways), or what we call consciousness: the space in which everything happens that we perceive, all our emotions, sensations, thoughts, and yes, our actions too... It is possible that being conscious requires having a soul...

    To be honest, I've experienced too many – let's call them: – impropable things in my life to still believe in a purely material world. But like any good scientist, I assume I could be wrong.



  • All life has a soul and it is also one big happy family. The human race are cry-babies though.



  • @OliveOlivia said in Do you believe in souls?:

    @petrapark3r How can we not know if animals are really conscious if they are able to learn, feel, and be aware of their surroundings like we do?
    Your definition of consciousness I would say already applies to my dog, and I'm sure many other pets and animals out there too?

    No, no, it could be the same way, that boston dynamics robots learn, "feel" and are aware of their sorroundings. My definition of consciousness is not, that something acts like a conscious agent (which boston dynamic robots tend to do with simple tasks like carrying boxes from one place to another, and being kicked in the but by mean engineers), but to actually have this... I cannot describe what consciousness is. You know what it is, and so do I, because and only because we are conscious.



  • I think yr worried unnecessarily about what consciousness is, Petra. Consciousness is like when you pour some sherbert in a can of cola and then shake it up and drink it down, only the sherbert is the dendrites in yr neural pathways, and the cola is the axons in yr pre-frontal receptors.

    I dunno whether there's such a thing as a soul or not. All I'd say is, one of the only times I remember blubbing at the TV is that episode of the Simpsons where Bart sells his soul, and then in the end gets it back. Weird, huh?



  • @Indrid-Cold said in Do you believe in souls?:

    I think yr worried unnecessarily about what consciousness is, Petra. Consciousness is like when you pour some sherbert in a can of cola and then shake it up and drink it down, only the sherbert is the dendrites in yr neural pathways, and the cola is the axons in yr pre-frontal receptors.

    I find the topic fascinating. Even more fascinating I find the people who are – without any substantiated argument – fully convinced that consciousness is but a function of matter...

    I dunno whether there's such a thing as a soul or not. All I'd say is, one of the only times I remember blubbing at the TV is that episode of the Simpsons where Bart sells his soul, and then in the end gets it back. Weird, huh?

    What's "blubbing"?



  • @petrapark3r BLUBBING. You know blubbing, mate - lip wobbles, eyes fill up.

    And as for those people poking them robos, I think they've got the right idea. You wanna get proactive with treating them as non-human, otherwise you'll start ANTHROPOMORPHISING them, and then you'll go mad with guilt when you accidentally run them over with a beach buggy ala Bruce Dern in Silent Running.


  • Hella Assassins Watch Anime Eyes Music Lovers Gamers

    @OliveOlivia said in Do you believe in souls?:

    Do you think humans have souls? Do you think animals have souls?
    Why or why not?

    Basically I'm a soul.


  • Music Lovers

    @OliveOlivia Google defines the soul as the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal. I don't think anything in me is immortal that is gonna stay forever. And I have no idea in what state it will stay after my body (that is made of matter) will decay. There is not a single shred of evidence something like that exists so I am gonna say there is no soul.



  • @ChaosKing said in Do you believe in souls?:

    @OliveOlivia Google defines the soul as the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal. I don't think anything in me is immortal that is gonna stay forever. And I have no idea in what state it will stay after my body (that is made of matter) will decay. There is not a single shred of evidence something like that exists so I am gonna say there is no soul.

    Let me recount some evidence then.

    • First of all predictions. Many people frequently experience knowing things in advance in their life. Scientifically this should not be possible since Entropy needs to increase for time to flow forward. If information can be sent through time backwards, then Entropy would increase in the opposite direction. So this seems like a non-physical phenomenon.
    • Non-physical communication. Like when people know that something bad happened to a loved one. It actually happens quite frequently... Statistically you should know at least 3 people who have made that experience.
    • Near Death Experiences. They usually follow the same pattern: Some kind of judgement (sometimes it's a movie of your life, where you recognize what was good and bad, sometimes it's an actual judgement, some people see jesus), meeting loved ones who died, some see angels, others see demons, others see even stranger things...
    • The origin of the universe. There are two options: 1. the universe (or multiverse) is eternal. 2. God is eternal and created the universe. If option 1 is true, then we'd have one problem: the universe would be irrational, because of the endless causal chain. If you want to I can elaborate.

    Of course none of this is proof. But it is evidence...



  • @Indrid-Cold said in Do you believe in souls?:

    @petrapark3r BLUBBING. You know blubbing, mate - lip wobbles, eyes fill up.

    And as for those people poking them robos, I think they've got the right idea. You wanna get proactive with treating them as non-human, otherwise you'll start ANTHROPOMORPHISING them, and then you'll go mad with guilt when you accidentally run them over with a beach buggy ala Bruce Dern in Silent Running.

    😂 let's give em hell mate



  • @OliveOlivia said in Do you believe in souls?:

    @AuroraFan said in Do you believe in souls?:

    The human race are cry-babies though.

    We are born cry babies and we stay cry babies 😂

    People don't grow up. We only pretend to because it's expected of us.



  • What do you think soul is?



  • You are probably aware of all the different theories people have had of it over times?


  • Music Lovers

    @petrapark3r first of all sorry for the late reply, haven't been here much.

    • Many people frequently experience knowing things in advance in their life, I don't know what you are talking about but I have not known a single person who can see the future. Using complex words like entropy and stuff doesn't make it the right argument. "Entropy is the measure of a system’s thermal energy per unit temperature that is unavailable for doing useful work." In simple words, entropy is a measure of disorder in the sense that all systems tend to, on their own, become less ordered. I don't know how it is related to your argument.
    • Well that's coz people almost think every day that something bad happened to their loved once, take an example of a soldier, soldiers do work in a dangerous situation, and their family members know that so these bad thoughts keep coming in their mind and if something bad happens it doesn't mean that something supernatural communicated to them to tell that something bad happened with their loved one.
    • There is lots of evidence, lots and lots, to support that the human brain creates illusions and hallucination when it is under stress. Anyway if you are a Hindu you will see Lord Krishna, if you're a Christian you will see Jesus or Yahweh (mostly Jesus) if you're a Muslim you will see Muhammad or Allah, can't you see how every near-death experience depends on your religion. I also had some hallucinations a while ago and I can't blame them, it feels so real.
    • First of all multiverse theory is still a hypothesis it's not yet a scientific theory, and I am pretty sure it doesn't say the universe is eternal it states that there may be multiple or even an infinite number of universes. Please get your facts correct. There are not "ONLY TWO OPTIONS". Please learn to say we don't know, coz we don't know the origin of the universe yet, that's the only place God is hiding rn. Please tell me who created the GOD? You are answering a simple question with another question if God created the universe who created god? The universe will be irrational, what does that even mean?
      Not a single word you said is evidence it is BS....


  • @AuroraFan said in Do you believe in souls?:

    The human race are cry-babies though.

    We are born cry babies and we stay cry babies 😂



  • @petrapark3r How can we not know if animals are really conscious if they are able to learn, feel, and be aware of their surroundings like we do?
    Your definition of consciousness I would say already applies to my dog, and I'm sure many other pets and animals out there too?



  • @OliveOlivia Now that's an interesting note and it shows how our minds control our actions from the very start of life.



  • @OliveOlivia said in Do you believe in souls?:

    @petrapark3r From what you are saying I'm not really sure what consciousness is. I've always been told that it simply being aware of ones self and its surroundings. If that is all it is than I would definitely say that animals have this, Monkeys for instance, I wouldn't say theyre any less conscious than us, dolphins, ocras, etc.
    I think just because animals don't act and 'aren't as smart' as us, people don't realize they are greater than they appear. They are smart, they know what theyre doing, they do not just act and react. They think, they feel, they create, they discover, they know much more than we know they know

    That is propably true.

    Let me try to write up a good explanation of consciousness.... Hmm. Okay, let's take the meditation novice's point of view: Consciousness includes the ability to perceive yourself as the actor of your actions, as the subject, who does things. The ability to perceive your self.

    You have strange dreams, so you might not be able to relate 🤷 but when I dream, I sometimes do it in an "unconscious" way. E.g. I don't control my actions, I don't even realize what I'm doing, things are just happening, and I'm not aware of being a self, of being an actor. And later I remember them and I remember I was in that dream. But this feeling of being the subject who dreams, of being an I, of being a person, returns only when I'm awake. (I also know lucid dreams and other dreams where I'm more conscious btw...)

    What we don't know is wether animals are able to perceive them selves or wether they just act the way they learned to act at one point. They can be smart, they can follow goals, they can even (monkeys at least) realize that the thing in the mirror is their own image. But are they proper aware of being someone? Or are they more in a dream like state? We might not ever know...






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