@pe7erpark3r said in Pet and Vex Man debate WAR:
@Vex-Man said in Pet and Vex Man debate WAR:
Sorry for taking my time to answer, I'm a busy man, just like you. So please forgive...
But I say some or a/the few (but not 0) wars are actually caused by the religions or doctrines. I stand for this thesis. Also, I say religious or doctrinal elements are enough for a whole war in my examples.
Duly noted :grin:
Taiping rebellion- Hong got divinity of Jesus and according to him, he was a brother of jesus .He was inspired by 10 commandments of Jesus and somewhat communism too. He went to thistle mountain to conspire against religious traditions of that place. On that moment, he wanted to arrest a lot of leaders of that religious group and wanted to join God worshiping society. He did not only accepted thistle mountain charcoal burner who claimed to channel God but also a farmer who claimed to channel Jesus. Also, he claimed that worshipers will go to heaven during prayers. Then he divided his society into four parts and liked to fight against demons. In 1850, he declared that he will be fought for the heaven and Jesus had urged him to do so. Demons were supposed as Qing dynasty. In 1851, unexpectedly he won but he continued this battle. When he won Yongan, he strictly told his soldiers to follow almost all commandments. Then he occupied Nanjing and he declared to cease warfare. He had Nanjing for 11 years and he left secular matters of governance thereafter. Europeans helped Qing dynasty to seize back and it was not expected by Hong. In 1864, Hong was found to be dead and during Nanzing seizing 30 to 70 million Taipingings were killed. It was an all out war because both sides destroyed farmland, butchered cities & villages, and killed animals. This war was not against only soldiers but also showed merciless to civilians. The Qing killed all the prisoners who were rebelling against him in Guangxi. Both sides exterminated whole population when they occupied a new specific territory.
I think the taping rebellion is a great example for a war that happened because of social injustice. The population that followed Hong Xiuquan were the Hakka. They did follow him, because the Qing dynasty did not allow for any social advancement for the Hakka. They were at the bottom, and society kept them at the bottom.
“I think the taping rebellion is a great example for a war that happened because of social injustice” which was caused by a political ideology ‘Confucianism’. The code of Confucianism stated three social categories in which scholars were put at top, peasant farmers were put in the middle, artisans and merchants were at the end. All Hakkas were belonged to second and third categories.
But I concede, that religious elements played a big role in keeping his followers in line.
True and the real war initialized when Hong protested against ‘Confucianism's beliefs’ on thistle mountain.
According to the general definition of a war is- an armed fighting between two or more countries or groups:https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/war. If police of USA fights against those religious extremist groups, it will be said a limited war. Or if USA fights against a terrorist country such as Iraq after getting permission of Christians, it will be said a limited war too.
I agree with your definition.
But I agree with you that war against terrorism or war between two or more terrorist groups are limited than an all out war is. You have no mercy for your opponent and you do not follow any type of battles’ rules in an all out war. However, you did not choose this thesis ‘no all out war is caused by any doctrine’. Now I think it is your thesis, correct me if I am wrong.
Yes, this is what I meant indeed!
I would talk about an all out war i.e. Vietnam war. The two dangerous ideologies, communism and capitalism fought in the Vietnam war. The main reason between this war was communism threatened to expand to almost all south-east Asia. The Capitalist country USA had a phobia for communism. North Vietnam was leaded by USSR, China and N.Korea. On the other hand, South Vietnam was leaded by USA, S.Korea, Cambodia and by some other nations. 13 to 42 LC people were killed. This war became an all out war when USA released nuclear radar bombs through F-105 and B-52.
The Vietnam war is a Proxy war fought between the US and the USSR.
Vietnam war was not a proxy war. Here is a list of proxy wars- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars. Here is the list of total wars (it is all about recent wars) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war
So yes, certainly 2 groups fought each other. In thase case I wouldn't even say that the US is united by its ideology as much as the USSR. I don't think capitalism is an ideology or doctrine, and I don't think capitalism unites people.
I can cite a Wikipedia article for ‘capitalism is an ideology and doctrine’. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ideologies_of_capitalism.
But communism certainly is. It is a fight for dominion, it is a fight for power...
Doctrine of communism contains conflict for dominion and power between two social major classes. According to communism, social resolution resolution is compulsory for ending this conflict. And communism was an ideology made against capitalism. Capitalism states every person is the owner of his life and each has a right to live according to his own way until it does not violate the right of others. If he violates the right of others thru power, the state can interfere. Since rights can only be violated by initiating force, the government would only use force in retaliation of those who initiated it. Therefore, capitalism definitely unites people too.