If god created the universe, then who created god? (question for theists)

[Kaneki-kun]

@albarselan said in If god created the universe, then who created god? (question for theists):

@kaneki-kun the reply is directed for mcurie , but iam including u as u r part of the conversation

Okay. I think the best person that can answer him/her is someone who now believes in God's existence and was formally an atheist @albArselan. Don't you think so??

[TheStrangest]

Well I'm supposed to not be on this site since.... well i left and definitely do not want to come back but i couldn't resist answering this. Sorry if this was really a question JUST for theists.

@mcurie long story short there is no good reason to believe in a god. If you can say that everything has to have a cause except god, i can say everything needs to have a cause except the universe and none of us would have gotten any closer to any truth. Most atheists are agnostic(a-(meaning not or lack)gnostic(having knowledge of)) atheists(a- theist(belief in god)) meaning they do not know for certain if there is a god or not but still do not believe because they've yet to find a good reason to. Point is that until science(the field of astrophysics in this case) has a SCIENTIFIC theory(theory means something completely different in science than otherwhere)

explaining the origins of the universe then no one knows and YOU don't get to give made up answers like "god" which you can't even clearly define for all we care. It's funny how the 2 fields of science(Astrophysics and Biology) that most focus on origins of things are the most atheist, i wonder why... because there is no proof for your made up answers

Any questions?

[TheStrangest]

@mcurie BTW I'll only answer if i feel like it, sometimes people write for too long, are incomprehensible and at the same time think that they're making perfectly valid points... and i ofcourse am rarely in the mood for that kind of sh*t

[DoYknowDaway]

I will tell you one Big secreat. The Love is not created. It have existed ever since and ever before. And was and it is and will be forever. Moving on. Stupid things dont matter. Get yourself a loving life man. We believe not for the good og God, because he doesnt need it. We believe because we need Him and his infinite love. And why is there misery in the world. Dont blame God but man for their stupidity. Have a wondwrful life

[Kugelblitz]

@thestrangest That's what I was telling them the whole time, but they think that the universe must have a cause, but god doesn't have a cause. blah blah blah.... That's why I stopped replying them.

[Kaneki-kun]

@mcurie said in If god created the universe, then who created god? (question for theists):

@thestrangest That's what I was telling them the whole time, but they think that the universe must have a cause, but god doesn't have a cause. blah blah blah.... That's why I stopped replying them.

All the answers you're looking for are here Who Created God? (Atheist gave answers with proves). And seriously IDK what men should tell you again if after all this you're still not satisfied.

[TheStrangest]

@kaneki-kun said in If god created the universe, then who created god? (question for theists):

@mcurie said in If god created the universe, then who created god? (question for theists):

@thestrangest That's what I was telling them the whole time, but they think that the universe must have a cause, but god doesn't have a cause. blah blah blah.... That's why I stopped replying them.

All the answers you're looking for are here Who Created God? (Atheist gave answers with proves).
And seriously IDK what men should tell you again if after all this you're still not satisfied

So basically you are just copying a whole fucking article and saying the answer to the rhetorical question "who created god" that points out the hypocrisy of saying that EVERYTHING has to have a cause EXCEPT god(which is just a special pleading FALLACY) is in an article that(I'm saying this without even opening) is from 100 to 500 words(look up the gish gallop FALLACY) long and if we don't reply to every argument then blah blah blah you won the argument because we ignored evidence, no retard we just won't waste our time on that shit, you copy the points you think are good then paste them here so we can reply easily to them and have other people also know what we're replying to

[TheStrangest]

@doyknowdaway said in If god created the universe, then who created god? (question for theists):

I will tell you one Big secreat. The Love is not created.

Technically love is just a bunch of serotonin, adrenalin and dopamine levels rising in your brain 😑

It have existed ever since and ever before. And was and it is and will be forever.

No you can't have love without brains and specifically brains that use dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline... to feel love otherwise you can't have love and since single cellular life started 3.8 billion years ago and eventually evolved to create neuronal synapses that can transmit chemicals around 850 million years ago and then those chemicals started to include the love ones after a couple million years passed(i don't feel like looking up exactly when but it's before our ancestors evolved 380 million years ago). So no love as we know it is pretty recent compared to the 14 billion year old universe and will be gone once we are extinct

Moving on. Stupid things dont matter. Get yourself a loving life man. We believe not for the good of God, because he doesnt need it.

He doesn't exist as far as we know

We believe because we need Him and his infinite love.

Atheists live without a belief in god and are mostly loving and are surrounded by loving people. We don't need an invisible sky daddy for that shit

And why is there misery in the world

Because that's a pre-set of the world's settings, all species suffer and all we can do is work together to make life more pleasurable

Dont blame God but man for their stupidity

1st we aren't blaming god for anything, you can't blame something whilst not believing in it's existence 😑
2nd we are pointing out that god by the definition you usually give either is impotent(isn't omnipotent), not omniscient, malevolent or doesn't exist like the quotes above state

Have a wondwrful life

Thanks, i think picking up a science textbook might be beneficial to you

[albArselan]

@kaneki-kun not the best one, but if he got an angle from the sky, he will not believe on god as its against his desire to not be asked about his actions.
All cases, if you measured it based on their minds, if god is not exist then we didn't lose anything, but what will happen for him when he discover the existance of god, if its after timeover, it will be his own problem

[albArselan]

@thestrangest
Hi the strangest, I hope you are fine.
Thanks because you couldn't resist joining the discussion, to tell us that you don't like to wast your time in discussing with us.
And yes, you can not answer.
:)

[Kaneki-kun]

@albarselan Hihihi ukr😁, that feeling when all you realize you've been fooled your whole life and still decided to stay foolish after all the help brought from ppl 😄😄😄

[TheStrangest]

@albarselan said in If god created the universe, then who created god? (question for theists):

@kaneki-kun not the best one, but if he got an angle from the sky, he will not believe on god as its against his desire to not be asked about his actions.
All cases, if you measured it based on their minds, if god is not exist then we didn't lose anything, but what will happen for him when he discover the existance of god, if its after timeover, it will be his own problem

Oh not is your English terrible but you're such a cunt too

What you provided here is just a very foggy version of the WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG? argument.

There is no right religion, all religion is made up bullshit. Now when you ask "what if you're wrong?"

What if i'm wrong? sigh

This is a shorter way to say "what about pascal's wager". If you don't remember what pascal's wager is, it basically says

A.Atheism
1.if you don't believe and you are right you lose nothing
2.if you don't believe and you are wrong then you'll burn in hell forever
B.Belief
3.if you do believe and you are right you gain a heaven
4.f you do believe and you are wrong you lose nothing

Here you can clearly say that believing is better than disbelieving because believing provides 2 results, one good(heaven) and one normal(non-existence after death) but disbelief provides 2 results, 1 normal(non-existence after death)and one horrible(burning in hell forever) but the 1st error in this argument is that it assumes that a person chooses what they believe which for anyone after a half second of thought is clearly bullshit.

i didn't chose to be an atheist it happened because i saw no sufficient evidence behind the religious claims, if there was evidence i would believe and of course faith is not a reliable pathway to truth since it can lead you to both true and wrong conclusions with incredible inaccuracy so using it is useless.

What use is there in using an UNRELIABLE PATHWAY TO TRUTH, to believe that something IS TRUE? I rest my case.

2nd error in this argument is that it's like "Oh, either non-belief in this religion or belief in this religion can be correct, there clearly is no other option" and any thinking brain can understand why it is bullshit. 99% of religions say that if you believe in another god than their's you're going to hell. Here is a list of all the versions of hell you can go to if you believe in the "wrong religion" assuming that one of these religions is right at random:

(MYTHOLOGY|Corresponding hell like thingy)
Albanian mythology Ferri
Aztec mythology Mictlan
Babylonian mythology Irkalla
Buddhist mythology Naraka (also Niraya)
Celtic mythology Annwn, Mag Mell
Chinese mythology / taoism Diyu 地獄
Egyptian mythology Aaru, Duat, Neter-khertet, Amenti
Estonian mythology Toonela
Fijian mythology see Melanesian mythology
Finnish mythology Tuonela
Georgian mythology Kveskneli
Germanic Hel, Niflheim
Greek mythology
Main article: Greek underworld
Elysium, Asphodel Meadows, Tártaros
Guanche mythology
Echeide, Guayota

Hindu mythology Naraka or Yamaloka, Patala
Hittite mythology Dankuš daganzipaš (dark earth)
Hopi mythology Maski
Hungarian mythology Alvilág
Inca mythology Uku Pacha
Inuit mythology Adlivun
Islamic mythology Jahannam, Naar, Barzakh, Araf
Jain mythology Naraka, Adho Loka (the lower world)
Japanese mythology/Shinto Yomi 黄泉, Ne-no-Kuni 根の国, Jigoku 地獄
Jewish/Hebrew mythology Sheol, Gehenna, Abaddon, Azazel, Tehom, Tophet, Tzoah Rotachat, Dudael
Korean mythology "Ji-Ok" 지옥 地獄
Latvian mythology Aizsaule
Malay mythology Alam Ghaib (The unseen realm)
Indonesian mythology
Māori mythology Hawaiki, Rarohenga
Mapuche mythology Pellumawida, Degin, Wenuleufu, Ngullchenmaiwe
Maya mythology Metnal, Xibalba
Melanesian mythology (includes Fijian) Bulu, Burotu, Murimuria, Nabagatai, Tuma
Norse mythology Gimlé, Hel, Niflhel, Vingólf
Oromo mythology Ekera
Persian mythology Duzakh
Philippine mythology Kasanaan
Polynesian mythology Avaiki, Bulotu, Iva, Lua-o-Milu, Nga- Atua, Pulotu, Rangi Tuarea, Te Toi-o-nga-Ranga, Uranga-o-Te-Ra
Pueblo mythology Shipap
Roman mythology Inferno, Avernus
Romanian mythology Tărâmul Celălalt
Slavic mythology Nav, Podsvetie, Peklo, Vyraj
Sumerian mythology Dilmun, Kur, Irkalla, Hubur
Turko-Mongol Erlik
Vodou mythology Guinee
Wagawaga (New Guinea) mythology Hiyoyoa
.
.
.
And millions of others.
Of course non of these including your Jahannam/hell are scientifically backed up so the chance of their existence is miniscule and the chance that all of them including yours are wrong is huge so disbelief would be safe but even if it wasn't safe, a dis-belief can't be wrong even if the thing you don't believe in is true Because aslong as there is no evidence for the thing you disbelieve in you can not chose to believe in it(remember what i said about faith). So you have to see that saying "What if you're wrong" is a very very overused useless argument

[TheStrangest]

@albarselan said in If god created the universe, then who created god? (question for theists):

@thestrangest
Hi the strangest, I hope you are fine.
Thanks because you couldn't resist joining the discussion, to tell us that you don't like to wast your time in discussing with us.
And yes, you can not answer.
:)

You're such a repulsive person.

The reason why I WILL NOT WATCH ANY VIDEOS OR READ ANY ARTICLES THAT ANYBODY SENDS is to enhance the debating experience, you will have to summarise what the videos/articles say WITH TEXT so i can respond WITH TEXT so other people can read what we're saying and join in. That's not it. In fact i already watched the vids but the point is that i am not gonna respond to a vid/article. You have to summarise or express naturally what's in the vid so i can respond to it. The reason is that

1st people can read what the person said and when i respond understand what i am rebuking and talking about

2nd sometimes people send articles/videos when they themselves don't understand what's in the video/article so it helps if they skip a step and just write their interpretation

3rd this makes it easier to avoid gish gallop FALLACIES, look up what a gish gallop FALLACY is.

4th I'll allow sending of videos if the person who is sending them is also summarising what's in the videos/articles by text and rendering the videos/articles optional 😊

This should be clear enough for you to understand

[Alucard]

@kaneki-kun Bitch you're retarded. God doesn't exist, you protestant fuck bucket. You think a Ghoul like you can win against a fuck mothering vampire like me? hell nah. I'ma burn fucking churches, mosques and synagogues and light blunts with the fire, fumes got my head spinning like a fucking tyre.

[Kaneki-kun]

@Alucard ok

[TRose18]

human is.

[SUmof1]

@mcurie God created God

[TheStrangest]

Lol, that isn't a valid argument

[TheStrangest]

@sumof1 I'll respond to something you said in another post here

@sumof1 said in What is @sumof1?:

@thestrangest 'miss clicking' 'miss click' it's misclick

It's a neologism, good to know. I genuinely thought it was miss click, thanks

1. Yes there is a God, The universe couldn't have just popped out of nowhere

It actually could have, not only has there been a full book written by a Lawrence Krauss who's a quantum physicist explaining how the laws of the universe permit that happening but Stephen Hawking said that once too in his documentary "intelligent design"

everything in the universe is perfected to levels 'natural selection' or 'mother nature' can't match and that is more than good reason enough

No it is not

1st what you provided here is the fine-tuning argument. Saying the universe is too well levelled/tuned for life for it not to have been designed by a god

No the universe is not fine tuned for life, not are 99% of all living things that ever existed on this planet are extinct and neither are human bodies perfect? As much as there is "intelligent design" there is equally stupid design as astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson explains here:

Not to even mention that yes, if any significant variable in the universe was different we would not exist but that doesn't mean that another form of life wouldn't have evolved on earth, infact if you understand natural selection you'll know that life evolves according to it's environment therefore if the environment on earth was in anyway not hospitable for our kind of life then it'd most likely be another kind of life that evolved here. I am not even mentioning the high possibility of there being completely different life forms on other planets in the cosmos

2. My family is Islamic but they have never forced it on me i choose to believe in it.

Is muslim*

Same, I'm an ex-muslim now agnostic atheist/anti-theist

I wouldn't say i follow it very closely but i follow through most things like not consuming alcohol or pork

Those aren't bad

I have looked into a lot of religions and i chose to stick with Islam though it may be biased as i was raised to believe in Islam.

(That is not the exact amount historians estimate but you get the idea)

It is quite a weird coincidence that 99% of the time children follow their parents religion, most religions contradict each other but all these children believe that they were born into the right religion and that all other people would burn in hell, don't you think?

Islam is in no way a good religion, not that any religion is good but it is particularly bad:

@sumof1 said in What is @sumof1?:

@thestrangest 'miss clicking' 'miss click' it's misclick

It's a neologism, good to now. I genuinely thought it was miss click, thanks

1. Yes there is a God, The universe couldn't have just popped out of nowhere

It actually could have, not only has there been a full book written by a Lawrence Krauss who's a quantum physicist explaining how the laws of the universe permit that happening but Stephen Hawking said that once too in his documentary "intelligent design"

everything in the universe is perfected to levels 'natural selection' or 'mother nature' can't match and that is more than good reason enough

No it is not

1st what you provided here is the fine-tuning argument. Saying the universe is too well levelled/tuned for life for it not to have been designed by a god

No the universe is not fine tuned for life, not are 99% of all living things that ever existed on this planet are extinct and neither are human bodies perfect? As much as there is "intelligent design" there is equally stupid design as astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson explains here:

Not to even mention that yes, if any significant variable in the universe was different we would not exist but that doesn't mean that another form of life wouldn't have evolved on earth, infact if you understand natural selection you'll know that life evolves according to it's environment therefore if the environment on earth was in anyway not hospitable for our kind of life then it'd most likely be another kind of life that evolved here

2. My family is Islamic but they have never forced it on me i choose to believe in it.

Is muslim*

Same, I'm an ex-muslim now agnostic atheist/anti-theist

I wouldn't say i follow it very closely but i follow through most things like not consuming alcohol or pork

Those aren't bad

I have looked into a lot of religions and i chose to stick with Islam though it may be biased as i was raised to believe in Islam.

(That is not the exact amount historians estimate but you get the idea)

It is quite a weird coincidence that 99% of the time children follow their parents religion, most religions contradict each other but all these children believe that they were born into the right religion and that all other people would burn in hell, don't you think?

Islam is in no way a good religion, not that any religion is good but it is particularly bad:

@ said in Do you think ISLAM is a religion of terrorism ?:

@notmyname Not all Muslims believe in islam at the same level. That's why not all muslims are violent. When i was a muslim i used to believe some stupid shit but i wasn't able to kill people even though I'm pretty sure if i staid in syria long enough i could have become a crazy murderer because of Islam. I have lost hope that you will doubt your beliefs, because you don't believe in evolution or the big bang even though they are facts in science, so you basically don't believe in science.
The quran says that the world was created in 6 days, which when compared to the fact of the big bang which shows how many quadrillions of years it took for the world to be created. It Is kind of like saying that it takes 30 minutes and not 9 months for a baby to be born. (Edit: make that 30 seconds not 30 minutes)
Let me prove to you that islam is not a religion of peace:
Part 1. Violent verses:

“Fight against those who do not obey Allah and do not believe in Allah or the Last Day and do not forbid what has been forbidden by Allah and His messenger even if they are of the People of the Book until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” 9:29

"Fight against those who do not obey Allah and do not believe in Allah or the Last Day and do not forbid what has been forbidden by Allah and His messenger even though they are of the People of the Book until they pay the Jizya With willing submissions and feel themselves subdued" surah 9 verse 29

“When the sacred months have passed, then kill the Mushrikin wherever you find them. Capture them. Besiege them. Lie in wait for them in each and every ambush but if they repent, and perform the prayers, and give zacat then leave their way free.” surah 9 verse 5

“They ask you about fighting during the sacred months. Tell them, fighting therein is a great sin but a greater sin is to prevent mankind from following the way of Allah, to disbelieve in him.” surah 2 verse 217

“Kill them wherever you find them and drive them out from where they drove you out. Persecution is worse than slaughter.” Surah 2 verse 191

“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.” Surah 47 verse 4 (smite means cut, so this means that when you will meet the unbelievers, cut their necks)

“When your Lord revealed to the angels, ‘Truly I am with you. So, keep firm those who have believed. I will strike terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved. So, strike them at the necks and cut off their fingers.’” Surah 8 verse 12

“Oh you who believe, fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you and let them find harshness in you.” surah 9 verse 123

“Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. Those who follow Him are merciful to one another but harsh to the disbeliever.” Surah 48 verse 29

“They wish that you would reject faith as they have rejected faith unless that you would all be equal. So, don’t take protectors from them unless they emigrate in the way of Allah but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them.” Surah 4 verse 89

Part 2. Verses against equality

Sexist verses:

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one superior to the other and because they spend to support them from their means. Therefore, righteous women are obedient and they guard in the husband’s absence what Allah orders them to guard. And, as to those women from whom you fear disobedience, give them a warning, send them to separate beds, and beat them.” Surah 4 verse 34

"Menstruating women are unclean, and men must stay away from them" Surah 2 verse 222

"Women are mens "fields," and men can have sex with them whenever they want" Surah 2 verse 223

"A woman is worth one-half of a man, and men are above women" Surah 4 verse 11, Surah 2 verse 282 ans Surah 2 verse 228

"Muslim men may marry up to 4 wives, including prepubecent girls, and can own sex slaves" Surah 4 verse 3, Surah 65 verse 4 and surah 4 verse 24

"Women must cover themselves and be seen only by relatives, eunuchs, slaves and children who have not yet had sex with women" Surah 24 verse 31

Homophobic verses:

"And (We sent) Lot when he said to his people: What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you? Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people. And the answer of his people was no other than that they said: Turn them out of your town, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves). So We delivered him and his followers, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind. And We rained upon them a rain; consider then what was the end of the guilty." Surah 7 verses 80-84

"And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them. And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful."surah 4 verse 15-16

Now do you understand why I'm angry?
Because muslims say that the quran and islam are perfect but look at this.

And because research has shown (you can google this) that 88% of Muslims in Egypt and 62% of Muslims in Pakistan favor the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim religion.

So basically a lot of Muslims want me dead.

So don't tell me don't attack islam when a lot of Muslims want to kill me.

Get a quran and find the verses i showed you to see how everything I'm saying is true. And watch this too

:)

3. I don't care about homosexuals they can do whatever they want, to put it simply i don't hate the LGBT community but i don't support them either.

Good to know that you don't care

[SUmof1]

@thestrangest Do you really want to do this here? Fine.
.'
Firstly, 'Good to know' not 'Good to now'. And you're welcome.
If you want to talk about scientists then let's talk about scientists. Do you have any idea how many scientists believe in a (inactive) creator? Albert Einstein believed in the God of beauty his reasoning was that "the universe didn't have to be beautiful but it is". Dr Clifford Wilson believed in God and many others that you can look up for yourself. But wait, what are scientists trying to achieve in science? It's one thing, A unified theory of everything (Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking dreamt of the day when a unified theory would prevail). Why have a unified theory? This is what Stephen Hawking said : 'To read the mind of God'
Here's another comment he made on God : This contrasted with his 2010 book The Great Design, in which he said that the idea of God was "not necessary" to explain the origin of the universe as the laws of physics offer enough of an explanation. That statement that was seen as a change from his previous position on God and the universe as, in an interview with Reuters in 2007, Hawking said “I believe the universe is governed by the laws of science,” conceding that “the laws may have been decreed by God, but God does not intervene to break the laws.”
What? He just said that there IS the need for a God to create the universe itself.
Now for this 'Lawrence Krauss' you mentioned (i've never even heard of him). What i'm going to say right now is considered to be a fact, There is NO quantum scientist out there who is better than Hawking. So the best quantum scientist believes in God, this is someone who deals with the universe and it's wonders everyday looking for an explanation (Dr. Hawking produced a lot of papers that gave a lot of answers, specifically on a matter (pun intended) that even Einstein failed to decipher, I'm talking about Black Holes. So if he believes in a God, do you?
Do you believe in the Big Bang Theory? Where nothing becomes something, tell me where or when in nature does a process take place where something is created out of nothing. There isn't one.
Now to that picture about 3000 gods, Those 3000 are not gods, all Greek mythological gods are not gods, they are embodiments of characteristics. Gods like Venus they are what the Greeks admired and worshipped, this similar to what Einstein believed he believed in multiple 'characteristics' and claimed them to be his god. Things like victory (nike) they used these terms to 'describe' or attempt to explain what it is by giving it a personality that is why all their gods have human-like features and a human body.
'Islam is in no way a good religion' and why is that?
Do I think Islam is a religion of terrorism?
Sure it is we kill for fun, i mean don't you believe all religions to be more or less the same, if you believe Islam to be a religion of terrorism then why aren't other religions like judaism, christianity, buddhism, hinduism religions of terrorism? is Islam different? Just like any other religion it has a God that the followers ship, so what's your reasoning for saying that?