Godbless everyone

[TheStrangest]

@willoww ni🅱🅱a. How am being negative? Fix your perception

[Sir Devil]

@thestrangest said in Godbless everyone:

I don't understand what you are saying here, what do you mean by "he did get revenge for her by raising this crime to the entirety of Isreal."
So when she got dissmembered after being gang raped, having the bible justify this as that she shouldn't have run off, was that not supporting slavery? Man i don't get it.

No, the thing is, by reading the previous and succeeding verses, you would get the context. So, the thing goes like, he was a traveler taking rest in a house. Some bandits got wind of it and they surrounded the house and started banging on the door, demanding that girl for sex. The owner of that house tried to negotiate with them but they wouldn't back down. They had no choice to give her up but then, they went overboard. The guy left her there because he knew that she was dead. After getting home, he brought this vile crime to every leader of every major city in Isreal and with their help, he waged a war against them and killed them. Thereby he got his revenge.

FACEPALM. THE DISTURBING PART HERE IS THAT IF GOD TOLD YOU TO GUT YOUR FUCKING SON YOU WOULD NATURALLY RESPOND WITH "GO FUCK YOURSELF, I AIN'T DOIN' IT" BUT THE BIBLE WANTS YOU TO BE WILLING TO DO IT IF YOU BELIEVE THAT GOD WANTS YOU TO DO IT. UGH, you dont have to be a genius to see why that's fucked up.

Yes, I get what you are saying. What I imagine is that God should have been trolling (some would say "testing), "Yo, Abram! Sacrifice your son for me". Just like you said, the thing it shows here is the submissiveness of the people. He did stop him, so, uh...

I never said that violence was depicted in the bible, i said that it was supported in the bible so how is that irrelevant.

In their defense, violence was a way of life back then.

I know you already know this but normalising slavery doesn't change how fucked up it was.

Yes, I know but now you know, how fucked up it is with the rest of the world. It was fucked up everywhere.

Dude i get what you're trying to say but an all-knowing god wouldn't have endorsed such things, im saying that it just shows that the bible is most defenitely man's work

Things were shown different in the Old Testament. It was more prehistoric. Things were pretty different back then. Remeber that we are talking about an era that is in BCE. Our current views on morality and ethics won't apply back then. In those times, it was normal. In the present, they are bad.

Saying "Most definitely", suggest that you have some solid evidence supporting that. Of course, there is no evidence, opposing that too. So, let's just leave it like that.

Yeh man. I don't care. It isn't a reply in a sense i just copy pasted it from another post of mine to keep it relevant and so hopefully someone reads it and learns something new or has an interesting thought so it's kind in that way. It worked since you read it, you might not have learned anything new but you made it relevant again and also thought about it for a sec.

Yes, and the only reason I replied was that you were rude to OP. I mean. OP just posted a positive message from The Bible but since you posted the copy-pasted reply, it's relevance has been greatly reduced. Now, people going through this topic would be more affected by the replies it spawned.

Hence, you perverted his message from something positive to something that is slightly negative, since it was from The Bible.

[TheStrangest]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

@thestrangest said in Godbless everyone:

I don't understand what you are saying here, what do you mean by "he did get revenge for her by raising this crime to the entirety of Isreal."
So when she got dissmembered after being gang raped, having the bible justify this as that she shouldn't have run off, was that not supporting slavery? Man i don't get it.

No, the thing is, by reading the previous and succeeding verses, you would get the context. So, the thing goes like, he was a traveler taking rest in a house. Some bandits got wind of it and they surrounded the house and started banging on the door, demanding that girl for sex. The owner of that house tried to negotiate with them but they wouldn't back down. They had no choice to give her up but then, they went overboard. The guy left her there because he knew that she was dead. After getting home, he brought this vile crime to every leader of every major city in Isreal and with their help, he waged a war against them and killed them. Thereby he got his revenge.

Im pretty sure that's not making the story better just made it stupider. Ugh. It still supports slavery and violence. End of story

FACEPALM. THE DISTURBING PART HERE IS THAT IF GOD TOLD YOU TO GUT YOUR FUCKING SON YOU WOULD NATURALLY RESPOND WITH "GO FUCK YOURSELF, I AIN'T DOIN' IT" BUT THE BIBLE WANTS YOU TO BE WILLING TO DO IT IF YOU BELIEVE THAT GOD WANTS YOU TO DO IT. UGH, you dont have to be a genius to see why that's fucked up.

Yes, I get what you are saying. What I imagine is that God should have been trolling (some would say "testing), "Yo, Abram! Sacrifice your son for me".

Testing is a stupid word to say here.

Here's the deffinition you are probably using:

"An event or situation that reveals the strength or quality of someone or something by putting them under strain."

See how it says 'reveal'. It means that if you already know the result before the test it isn't a test. Isn't the god of the bible omnipotent therefore knows what Abraham will do before giving him the order so it isn't really a test.

And what lesson is this. Testing him for what?

Let's see another definition

"A procedure intended to establish the quality, performance, or reliability of something, especially before it is taken into widespread use."

What is the quality the story portraise as good? Being ready to gut anybody including your loved ones if you ever believe god wants you to. Same as isis, no difference in logic.

Just like you said, the thing it shows here is the submissiveness of the people.

Which is bad.

He did stop him, so, uh...

UHM... what? NOTHING. It's a fucked up violent story and that's it

I never said that violence was depicted in the bible, i said that it was supported in the bible so how is that irrelevant.

In their defense, violence was a way of life back then.

Stop defending uneducated desert savages nor their worldwide praise.

I know you already know this but normalising slavery doesn't change how fucked up it was.

Yes, I know but now you know, how fucked up it is with the rest of the world. It was fucked up everywhere.

Ok. That makes sense

Dude i get what you're trying to say but an all-knowing god wouldn't have endorsed such things, im saying that it just shows that the bible is most defenitely man's work

Things were shown different in the Old Testament. It was more prehistoric. Things were pretty different back then. Remeber that we are talking about an era that is in BCE.

Not really, that was a couple hundred years after the start hestoric period and the end of the heroic period. There were a lot if historiens and even some well known ones back then and none of them wrote about "the great achievments and miracles of Jesus" because there were no such things and even to this day there is 0 evidence that jedus even existed and of course the bible is not evidence just like the harry potter books aren't evidence of the existence of Hogwarts existing.

Our current views on morality and ethics won't apply back then.

Morality isn't a whatever whenever thing. Secular well being is based on the conservation of well being. None of the old Testament is moral by any standard unless you define morality as the creation of pain and suffering.

In those times, it was normal. In the present, they are bad.

Nah ni🅱🅱a. It's always bad wether it happened 2000 years ago or today. Nothing changes the morality of a thing with time.

Saying "Most definitely", suggest that you have some solid evidence supporting that.

Why would i need any evidence to disbelieve in something that has as much proof behind it as a harry potter book.

Of course, there is no evidence, opposing that too. So, let's just leave it like that.

Let me explain this.

i didn't chose to be an atheist it happened because i say no sufficient evidence behind the religious claims, if there was evidence i would believe and of course faith is not a reliable pathway to truth since it can lead you to true and wrong conclusions with incredible inaccuracy so using it is useless.

Yeh man. I don't care. It isn't a reply in a sense i just copy pasted it from another post of mine to keep it relevant and so hopefully someone reads it and learns something new or has an interesting thought so it's kind in that way. It worked since you read it, you might not have learned anything new but you made it relevant again and also thought about it for a sec.

Yes, and the only reason I replied was that you were rude to OP. I mean. OP just posted a positive message from The Bible but since you posted the copy-pasted reply, it's relevance has been greatly reduced.

Increased*

And if i came of as rood then sorry but it was just copy/paste.

Now, people going through this topic would be more affected by the replies it spawned.
Hence, you perverted his message from something positive to something that is slightly negative, since it was from The Bible.

If i didn't reply this post would have been off the first couple of pages a long time ago and no one would have seen it anyway

[Sir Devil]

@thestrangest

Not really, that was a couple hundred years after the start hestoric period and the end of the heroic period. There were a lot if historiens and even some well known ones back then and none of them wrote about "the great achievments and miracles of Jesus" because there were no such things and even to this day there is 0 evidence that jedus even existed and of course the bible is not evidence just like the harry potter books aren't evidence of the existence of Hogwarts existing.

What is the point you are trying to make here? Heroic age is in BCE and we were talking about the things in the Old Testament, which is in BCE and not about Jesus.

Stop defending uneducated desert savages nor their worldwide praise.

I am telling your quote right back at you.
"Hey. Don't generalise"
Uneducated desert savages, huh? Even the common people? Wow!

In all seriousness, Uneducated? I doubt that. Many people were indeed educated back then. It was just that they were educated to their standards. You can't expect them to learn something that isn't present in their time.

Savages? Of course, they were savage. Remember we are talking about a time period that is in BCE. Every single era before our current modern era was filled with brutal violence and bloodshed. There was no choice other than that. There was no sufficient technology to establish a proper communication without the fear of assassination and even if they were in a period of peace, was no one enforcing it. So, back then, the only way you could have a proper peace is to capture all of the surrounding territories. So yeah, every soldier in all parts of history were savages.

Btw, notice that I said "Soldiers"

stupider

Now, how is it stupider?

supports slavery and violence

Now then, since it was in BCE, The Old Testament was far from perfect. Today, we have people fighting against slavery and violence, which is good.

But back then, there were none arguing against it. They just accepted it as a part of their life. There isn't a single nation that never practiced slavery. History can't be changed. In other words, it used to be like this in the past. In today's world, this won't apply.

Let me explain this.
i didn't chose to be an atheist it happened because i say no sufficient evidence behind the religious claims, if there was evidence i would believe and of course faith is not a reliable pathway to truth since it can lead you to true and
wrong conclusions with incredible inaccuracy so using it is useless.

Again, why this reply? You are just repeating what I said. I have already said there is no solid evidence supporting or opposing God. In such situation, you took the opposing stance. I am not saying that is wrong. You do what you do.

Testing is a stupid word to say here

Did you notice that I used testing within double quotes and also that it was not the first word that I used?

it was just copy/paste.

Okay. Anyway, it doesn't make it less rude just because it is a copy-paste. It just shows that there was less work for you.

[Sir Devil]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

there was no one enforcing it

Just in case, I would explain more. Here I am implying two things; UN and MAD. They are the two things that are doing the most work in preventing wars between nations.

Hence, back then, there was no peaceful way to solve an issue between two nations. There were no Internation Court of Justice. If a country did wrong, they only way you could get back at them would be to gather an army and kill their ruler, an act which is both violent and savage.

[Sir Devil]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

Heroic age
Hestoric age

What are you meaning by this?
I assumed heroic age to the Greek heroic age, which is something that is connected to Greek mythology and whose history must have taken place in BCE.

Note that I said "History". It's because the city of Troy depicted in the Odysseus exists, although the story is interwoven with the mythology. I have to clarify this because you always do case by case breakdown reply and have far too many times failed to see my context.

Now, wtf is hestoric age?

[Sir Devil]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

Btw, notice that I said "Soldiers"

Again, a just in case reply. The violent stories depicted in the Old Testament are done by only a mere fraction of the people. There must have been a lot of peasants who lived their lives peacefully while abiding by their laws. Some may not even have slaves. They might have been that poor. They might have lived their lives peacefully without any harms. Hell, many Scholars throughout the history resort from committing any violence. There must have been Scholars back then too. Hence, I don't find them all to be either uneducated nor savage.

The reason I posted this reply is echo.

[TheStrangest]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

@thestrangest

Not really, that was a couple hundred years after the start hestoric period and the end of the heroic period. There were a lot if historiens and even some well known ones back then and none of them wrote about "the great achievments and miracles of Jesus" because there were no such things and even to this day there is 0 evidence that jedus even existed and of course the bible is not evidence just like the harry potter books aren't evidence of the existence of Hogwarts existing.

What is the point you are trying to make here? Heroic age is in BCE and we were talking about the things in the Old Testament, which is in BCE and not about Jesus.

Oh sorry i thought you were talking about the bible in general

Stop defending uneducated desert savages nor their worldwide praise.

I am telling your quote right back at you.
"Hey. Don't generalise"

Oh i am gonna generalise. People back then knew as much about existence, the universe and the meaning of life as today's 7 year olds

Uneducated desert savages, huh? Even the common people? Wow!

Yes savages. Stonings? Genetal mutilation? Who does that, them.

In all seriousness, Uneducated?

YES uneducated

I doubt that. Many people were indeed educated back then.

They believed the earth is flat

It was just that they were educated to their standards.

Standards don't change with time.

You can't expect them to learn something that isn't present in their time.

I expect them not to write their ignorance on paper and say it's the word of god. Like the earth being flat or not knowing where the sun went at night

Savages? Of course, they were savage.

People neing savage = Savages.

Remember we are talking about a time period that is in BCE.

Who cares about the time

Every single era before our current modern era was filled with brutal violence and bloodshed.

So what. Well defined standards do not changewith time

There was no choice other than that.

True but that doesn't change anything

There was no sufficient technology to establish a proper communication without the fear of assassination and even if they were in a period of peace, was no one enforcing it.

Unadvanced uneducated savages as i was saying.

So, back then, the only way you could have a proper peace is to capture all of the surrounding territories.

By raping their women and killing their babbies under the commands of god

So yeah, every soldier in all parts of history were savages.

Not really. Some of them were well orginised, educated and not savage by the modern deffinition.

Btw, notice that I said "Soldiers"

I did

stupider

Now, how is it stupider?

supports slavery and violence

Now then, since it was in BCE, The Old Testament was far from perfect. Today, we have people fighting against slavery and violence, which is good.

Yes exactly. Christians claim it's the word of god. I'm saying it supoorts slavery, violence and you agree so let's move on.

But back then, there were none arguing against it.

STOP DEFENDING IT.

They just accepted it as a part of their life. There isn't a single nation that never practiced slavery.

Maybe but there probably was.

History can't be changed. In other words, it used to be like this in the past. In today's world, this won't apply.

True but this is off subject

Let me explain this.

i didn't chose to be an atheist it happened because i say no sufficient evidence behind the religious claims, if there was evidence i would believe and of course faith is not a reliable pathway to truth since it can lead you to true and
wrong conclusions with incredible inaccuracy so using it is useless.

Again, why this reply? You are just repeating what I said. I have already said there is no solid evidence supporting or opposing God.

Cool

In such situation, you took the opposing stance.

Wrong. I didn't take the opposing stance. I fell in it naturally since the only logical conclusion with unicorns is to not believe they exist. Did you TAKE the side which believes unicorns don't exist? I think not

I am not saying that is wrong. You do what you do.

Cool

Testing is a stupid word to say here

Did you notice that I used testing within double quotes and also that it was not the first word that I used?

Sure. You might agree with what i said i just wanted to explain it

it was just copy/paste.

Okay. Anyway, it doesn't make it less rude just because it is a copy-paste.

It kinda does because it's old and i didn't even remember fully how it was. I just wanted to make it relevant

It just shows that there was less work put into it
Therefore less intent to be rude or not

[TheStrangest]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

there was no one enforcing it

Just in case, I would explain more. Here I am implying two things; UN and MAD. They are the two things that are doing the most work in preventing wars between nations.

First time i heard of MAD

Hence, back then, there was no peaceful way to solve an issue between two nations. There were no Internation Court of Justice. If a country did wrong, they only way you could get back at them would be to gather an army and kill their ruler, an act which is both violent and savage.

Kinda off subject but k

[TheStrangest]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

Heroic age
Hestoric age

What are you meaning by this?

THE heroic is prehestoric. It is when most info came in the form of verbally spread true or false or partly true and partly false myth/legend.

I assumed heroic age to the Greek heroic age, which is something that is connected to Greek mythology and whose history must have taken place in BCE.

Yes. That's what i said

Note that I said "History". It's because the city of Troy depicted in the Odysseus exists, although the story is interwoven with the mythology.

Exactly. Those are heroic times not historic

I have to clarify this because you always do case by case breakdown reply and have far too many times failed to see my context.

Sorry

Now, wtf is hestoric age?

I never said that. I think you misread "hiroic/heroic" as "hestoric"

[Sir Devil]

@thestrangest Well, MAD stands for Mutually Assured Destruction. It's kind of agreement between every single nation, that if you attack me and it leads to war, we both know that both of our countries would be destroyed. It's one of the major things that's stopping countries from making big moves, especially against similarly powerful nations, since you know, with the advancement in the nuclear weaponry, we can pretty much fuck up the entire civilizations overnight.

[TheStrangest]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

Btw, notice that I said "Soldiers"

Again, a just in case reply. The violent stories depicted in the Old Testament are done by only a mere fraction of the people. There must have been a lot of peasants who lived their lives peacefully while abiding by their laws.

And participating in genital mutilation

Some may not even have slaves.

So much for helping my argument lol

They might have been that poor. They might have lived their lives peacefully without any harms. Hell, many Scholars throughout the history resort from committing any violence.

Dude. Let's say 90% of them are uneducated, unadvanced desert savages. Ok

There must have been Scholars back then too. Hence, I don't find them all to be either uneducated nor savage.

Sure. They would be in the 10%

The reason I posted this reply is echo.

[Sir Devil]

@thestrangest

Not really, that was a couple hundred years after the start hestoric period

I never said that. I think you misread "hiroic/heroic" as "hestoric"

huh?

[TheStrangest]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

@thestrangest

Not really, that was a couple hundred years after the start hestoric period

I never said that. I think you misread "hiroic/heroic" as "hestoric"

huh?

I guess it was a typo. Sorry

[TheStrangest]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

@thestrangest Well, MAD stands for Mutually Assured Destruction. It's kind of agreement between every single nation, that if you attack me and it leads to war, we both know that both of our countries would be destroyed. It's one of the major things that's stopping countries from making big moves, especially against similarly powerful nations, since you know, with the advancement in the nuclear weaponry, we can pretty much fuck up the entire civilizations overnight.

I learned something new today. Thanks

[Sir Devil]

@thestrangest said in Godbless everyone:

Dude. Let's say 90% of them are uneducated, unadvanced desert savages. Ok

Oh...okay. What makes you think that way?
What makes you think that only 10% were normal?

Why, couldn't more people live their lives peacefully?
What makes you so sure?
If you say the people portrayed in the Bible are like that, then let me say that they are only a mere fraction of all the people who lived through the decades

Standards don't change with time.

No, the standard does change with time. With the passage of time and subsequent discoveries, we gain more knowledge and we establish new theories and deconstruct previous theories. With this, the basic knowledge, one must possess in that time period increases and also, along with it the standard increases too.

Oh i am gonna generalise. People back then knew as much about existence, the universe and the meaning of life as today's 7 year olds

*sigh * http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/2013/02/is-our-collective-iq-increasing/

I can accept that the people back then didn't know much about the universe since they didn't have the necessary technology but existence and meaning of life???

Most major theories about existence and the meaning of life were established by philosophers from that time but you know what? They are still only theories, we still don't know exactly what is to exist and what is the meaning of life. There are still many philosophers pondering over this. So, if you tell me that today's 7 year old knew more about existence and the meaning of life, without proper evidence to back you up, I would call bullshit.

I expect them not to write their ignorance on paper and say it's the word of god. Like the earth being flat or not knowing where the sun went at night
They believed the earth is flat
Now, lol. Are you saying that they were uneducated because they didn't understand something? It's almost like saying that you and I are uneducated because we don't know what is dark matter is or what came before the big bang.

....and many people, still believe that earth is flat, even in this age of technology. lol.

So what. Well defined standards do not changewith time

Yes, they do. Do you know that WWI was the first war in the history of mankind, where the civilian casualty was larger than the military casualties but then again, now we can't impale people to death? I'm not saying that it's a good thing but you must see that there's a clear change of what we can do and what we can't in a war, which is the standards of a war.

supports slavery and violence

Oh, it depicted slavery and violence. Well, that's too bad, it supports slavery and violence. Now that I think about it movies like 12 years a slave also supports slavery, huh?

By raping their women and killing their babbies under the commands of god

Wait? Who raped his women? Are you referring to that story? but he didn't rape her. She was raped by bandits, something that happens even to this day.

[Sir Devil]

@thestrangest left out a few things...

Maybe but there probably was.

Well, as far as I know, there's none but if you know of any, feel free to educate me.

fell in it

Using euphemism doesn't really change the meaning.
fell in it == took __ stance

Some of them were well orginised, educated and not savage by the modern deffinition.

Well, one can be well organized and educated and still, behave savagely. One good example in BCE would be The Roman Empire. They had one of the most savage armies in that time and the things that they did can easily be said to be savage.

In order words, No matter what, War turn one into a savage.
Still giving you the benefit of the doubt, tell me more about these soldiers who fought in the wars, yet remain unsavage.

Kinda off subject but k

It is not off topic. I used it to illustrate my point. So, let me ask you a question. Imagine, you are a king. An opposing country attacks one of your major portside city and takes over. How would you reclaim your city without resorting to violence?

In case if you still think that it's still off topic, in my opinion in that time there would have no peaceful way to solve many issues without resorting to violence.

[TheStrangest]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

@thestrangest said in Godbless everyone:

Dude. Let's say 90% of them are uneducated, unadvanced desert savages. Ok

Oh...okay. What makes you think that way?
What makes you think that only 10% were normal?

Even only 5% not 10% because that's the amont of philosophy scholars, no other type of people can be called educated from back then.

Why, couldn't more people live their lives peacefully?

Because ignorance and technological unadvancements

What makes you so sure?

Historical documents from the time

If you say the people portrayed in the Bible are like that, then let me say that they are only a mere fraction of all the people who lived through the decades

Cool. Last time i checked average people from back then were still at least performing weird retuals like killing babies and burying them under buildings to prevent earthquakes and shit like that

Standards don't change with time.

No, the standard does change with time.

Nah. The standard i'm using doesn't. Im talking about not being stupid enough to participate in genital mutilation, to believe in myths, believe that the earth is flat...

With the passage of time and subsequent discoveries, we gain more knowledge and we establish new theories and deconstruct previous theories. With this, the basic knowledge, one must possess in that time period increases and also, along with it the standard increases too.

Makes sense but some people back then already knew the earth was round. I agree with you but here we are talking about people who claim to have revealed an all knowing beings sayings and stuff like that which is stupid if they don't even know the earth was round, the standard of comparisson changes for the people who wrote the bible because they wrote the bible.

Oh i am gonna generalise. People back then knew as much about existence, the universe and the meaning of life as today's 7 year olds

*sigh * http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/2013/02/is-our-collective-iq-increasing/

IQ has nothing to do with knowledge. My assertion still stands out as true. For example todays 5 year olds do understand that the earth is round and do understand the concept of negative numbers. Back then the best of men did not.

I can accept that the people back then didn't know much about the universe since they didn't have the necessary technology but existence and meaning of life???

Yeah. The meaning of life. What life is, how does it come into existence through breeding...
What is the perpus of life? Is the perpus predetermined or do you create your own perpus...

Most major theories about existence and the meaning of life were established by philosophers from that time but you know what?

That's why i excluded philosophers from the uneducated group

They are still only theories, we still don't know exactly what is to exist and what is the meaning of life.

That's where you are wrong. Existence as a consciousness is still not perfectly understood but the meaning of life is. Now we can assert with confidence that existentialism is true and that for nox science supports heavily an existentialist nihalist view of the universe

There are still many philosophers pondering over this.

Other than consciousness not really

So, if you tell me that today's 7 year old knew more about existence and the meaning of life, without proper evidence to back you up, I would call bullshit.

With this it's more like 12 as the age where you learn about exactly how life is born and to view things from an existential point of view(even if at 12 you had never heard of the word existentialism) but with the other stuff it is 7

I expect them not to write their ignorance on paper and say it's the word of god. Like the earth being flat or not knowing where the sun went at night
They believed the earth is flat
Now, lol. Are you saying that they were uneducated because they didn't understand something?

No. Because they literally did not understood everything they tried to explain in the bible if nothing at all. I already explained why my standards change for them

It's almost like saying that you and I are uneducated because we don't know what is dark matter is or what came before the big bang.

A man in the future would say that we are uneducated on the topic if we tried to write BS on a book which we later try to pass on as true words of an invisible man in the sky

....and many people, still believe that earth is flat, even in this age of technology. lol.

Many? I do not think there are more than a couple thousand. No more than 1% of the population. That is almost the opposite for back then

So what. Well defined standards do not changewith time

Yes, they do.

No they don't. That's what defining something means

Do you know that WWI was the first war in the history of mankind, where the civilian casualty was larger than the military casualties but then again, now we can't impale people to death? I'm not saying that it's a good thing but you must see that there's a clear change of what we can do and what we can't in a war, which is the standards of a war.

We are not talking about standards of war. We are talking about what standards are we using to call people uneducated or educated

supports slavery and violence

Oh, it depicted slavery and violence.

NOOOOO. FUCK NO. It clearly fucking SUPPORTED slavery and violence not just depicted it for fucks sake

Well, that's too bad, it supports slavery and violence.
Now that I think about it movies like 12 years a slave also supports slavery, huh?

Fucking hell. When did the movie give instructions on how to own slaves like the bible? When did it order slaves to be obidient like the bible?

Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves

Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.

Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word “servant”, “bondservant”, or “manservant” instead of “slave” to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn’t mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.

The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and has sex with them!

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

By raping their women and killing their babbies under the commands of god

Wait? Who raped his women? Are you referring to that story? but he didn't rape her. She was raped by bandits, something that happens even to this day.

Sorry. Just killing women and babbies not raping

No. I'm reffering to this

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

[TheStrangest]

@sir-devil said in Godbless everyone:

@thestrangest left out a few things...

Maybe but there probably was.

Well, as far as I know, there's none but if you know of any, feel free to educate me.

I doubt people who lived at the south and north pole had slaves

fell in it

Using euphemism doesn't really change the meaning.
fell in it == took __ stance

The point is that i didn't decide to. And those are not synonymes. Fell in means i wasn't i control and took stance means that i consciously decided to.

Some of them were well orginised, educated and not savage by the modern deffinition.

Well, one can be well organized and educated and still, behave savagely. One good example in BCE would be The Roman Empire. They had one of the most savage armies in that time and the things that they did can easily be said to be savage.

Sure dude. I said 'some' as in soldures who mracticed martial arts and were very strategic and technical

In other words, No matter what, War turn one into a savage.

Not necissarely. I doubt ninjas in war time were savages for example

Still giving you the benefit of the doubt, tell me more about these soldiers who fought in the wars, yet remain unsavage.

Ninjas are a good example

Kinda off subject but k

It is not off topic. I used it to illustrate my point. So, let me ask you a question. Imagine, you are a king. An opposing country attacks one of your major portside city and takes over. How would you reclaim your city without resorting to violence?

God is omnipotent dude. We are talking about the hypothetical senerio here where this happens alongside the existence of a god.

Instead of god doing this:

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

He could have stopped the war and fighting with his omnipotence

In case if you still think that it's still off topic

I do

In my opinion in that time there would have no peaceful way to solve many issues without resorting to violence.

I doubt it, there were truces but i have to repeat that with god being omnipotent doesn't change that ordering people to kill each other to resolve a problem instead of using his omnipotence is evil and supporting violence

[Sir Devil]

@thestrangest

Sure dude. I said 'some' as in soldures who mracticed martial arts and were very strategic and technical

I thought I asked you for an example and you said "Ninjas". Fockin Ninjas. Let me get to that in a bit. The people you mentioned would be something like the Chinese monks. Not soldiers but monks. Then again, even they were savage. A Chinese historical document mentions them defending their countries' borders against enemies. It tells a story about a small group of monks defending an army against overwhelming odds using their superior combat skills and better weapons. Were they savage? Yes, of course, they were. Or do you have any better and precise examples?

Not necessarily. I doubt ninjas in wartime were savages for example
Ninjas are a good example

Let me get this straight. I asked an example of a soldier. You said, Ninja. Okay.
First things first, Ninjas were not soldiers. Ninja is a vague term used to describe peasants who took to arms after getting fed up with their shogun. Hence, they were more like an assassin. They were unorganized and they practiced guerilla warfare assassinating key officials on the cover of the night using household things. Later, the way the fought were recorded and were called as "Ninjutsu". Of course, that in itself is extremely vague too. Swift assassination requires one to be savage. Hence, of course, they were savage too.

I doubt people who lived at the south and north pole had slaves

Okay. I asked an example of a country. You gave a vague answer about the people of the north and south pole. Okay, let me set that straight. Antartica does not and has never had an indigenous population. Inuits of the high arctic, that is near the north pole were a nomadic tribe. Not a country but a nomadic tribe. They were virtually impossible to own a slave. That is because they do not have an economy because their society was "egalitarian". There were no rich or poor. The food they gather was distributed evenly among their tribe.
Some of the tribe migrated south to the arctic circle and settled down. They formed villages with a chieftain as their leader. The neighboring chieftain fought numerous wars with themselves and usually, I hope no one notices this, lol I wrote this on dec tweleth where's there is war, there's slavery and it is true in here too. They sold the captured villages' women and children as slaves. Few such tribe would be where the Vikings came from and we all know how they were.

God is an omnipotent dude.

We have already discussed it. We have already established that there is no solid evidence opposing and supporting the existence of god. The thing in the bible is that it never discussed the origin of god and even if it was mentioned, no one would have believed it, just like that. What if he is bound by rules like he can't directly interfere? What is he is just one of the god monitoring the vast multiverse? What if he can't directly control minds? What if he is not truly omnipotent? The point is we don't know. There's no evidence for that either way.
I thought that we have already established it and moved on to whether the people in time period Old testament takes place were "Uneducated desert savages"

genital mutilation

I don't know, why you are mentioning genital mutilation. As far as I searched there is no mention of it in the bible. Citation needed.

Last time I checked average people from back then were still at least performing weird rituals like killing babies and burying them under buildings to prevent earthquakes and shit like that

As far as I know, I do not find anything related to that in the bible. Citation needed.
Or are you mentioning something that some tribes did, that has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

some people back then already knew the earth was round

Yes, and the bible also does not comment on the shape of the shape of the earth. It sometimes says things like four corners of the earth but it's meant to be taken metaphorically. It does not mention anything directly related to the shape of the earth. During the early Church period, the spherical view was widely held, with just a few exceptions.

Refer this wiki page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth

Because ignorance and technological unadvancements

That's exactly what I am saying. Peace was virtually impossible to attain due to their lack of knowledge and technological advancement. Today due to the advancement we attained over a period of several millenniums, we are able to attain said peace. Of course, there was truce back then but it was not possible to maintain it back then and hence, they were rarely held, especially with bigger nations. The reason why truces weren't effective, as I mentioned earlier would be the lack of any governing forces (like the UN) watching over those countries and maintain the peace.

12 as the age where you learn about exactly how life is born

Again, You were certain about an age. That means that you have proper evidence to back you up. Where is it? I would not have asked for it unless you were sure about it and asserts that it is indeed the truth.

And I wouldn't bet on every single prepubescent to know about their meaning of life. As far as the ones I was seen, they don't have a frickin clue or they don't care whatsoever.

No they don't. That's what defining something means

Yes, they do. Standard change with time. If you are too hung up on it, here's the definition of educational standard, "Learning //(also can be called educational)// standards are elements of declarative, procedural, schematic, and strategic knowledge that, as a body, define the specific content of an educational program."

and here's the definition of educational program, "An educational program is a program written by the institution or ministry of education which determines the learning progress of each subject in all the stages of formal education."

Notice that it says here "written by institution". With this two defenition, we can establish that the educational standard is something that depends on the current government. Hence, since with time both the government and the institution beneath it changes, the standards also change with time.

If you say that, that wasn't the defenition you had in mind of that my conclusion of the defenition was completely wrong, I do ask you provide us with an accurate defenotion of "Educational Standard"