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  • @Sij
    hey, that's an interesting question!

    do i feel a sense of national pride towards my country? sure, definitely
    do i support everything my country does or has done in the past? i can't say that i do. the us has a shady past when it comes to things like civil rights/military interventions/support for dictatorships etc. but then again, we've done a lot of noble things too, so it's not all bad
    do i support the current administration? absolutely not lmao

    it's good to be patriotic, but it's also smart to question everything your government does. that's what makes you a responsible citizen~

  • Magpie speaks true. This is an interesting question.

    Me? As an Englishman, I don't think we've got such a strong national identity anymore that anyone can call themselves a patriot. And even when we did, it was all stereotypes. Champions of WWII? Maybe, but that was 70 years ago. But, fair-minded? Liberal? Nah. Classy? Nah. I'm proud enough of the NHS, but these days it's almost completely broken.

  • It's tough to get an appointment in NHS. It sucks!

  • @Emily-Gr Yup. And the last two ambulances I've ordered for my elderly dad have been no-shows. I wouldn't mind if the operator says, "We can't get there", then you could just drive the patient in yourself. It's the waiting that's crazy. :mask: :police_car: :confounded_face:

  • @Sij I'm not. I find the notion of taking pride in things you haven't done yourself a bit silly, and detest the notion of countries. The earth wasn't formed with lines on a map dividing us, the only reason we even have patriotism is because some twunts a very long time ago decided to fight some other twunts instead of all get along like we should be doing. Now instead of being free to wander share and grow as we are supposed to be we are born shackled to nations who control us from the beginning, squabbling over things which don't matter whilst our brothers and sisters go hungry and die in the streets. Having separate nations only fuels such problems.

  • @Matt_Aranha Absolutely agree with you. There is nothing can be added to such an irrefragable answer.

  • Theres no point in being a patriot. I'm from a third-world country, is that explanation enough? Just another vassal nation with a fucked up government.
    We have no great ancestral culture, since it's a post-colonial country, I got nothing to be proud of. The only culture we know of is being pitiyankee (USA admirer).

  • @Matt_Aranha I am not patriotic and I agree I think that people sometimes just attach themselves to parts of the important aspects of patriotism to feel like they are a part of something. I think a lot of people choose patriotism to stand up for because they think that it's an admirable trait. A lot of people aren't truly even aware what they are standing up for when they are patriotic for their own country. They do it because they're raised there because their family was born there. They do it sometimes because they don't know any better. The only thing worse than stupidity is ignorance.

  • @DaNii thank you for saying that because this is what my previous post was about people who have no choice but to be patriotic... people who are forced into patriotism by birth... by where they live... it's this is what it the problem is

  • @Sij said in Are you a patriot? Why? Or why not?:

    If you are a patriot, what is the basis of your patriotism?
    Is the basis of your patriotism ethnic or ethnolingual? Or tribal? Or cultural? Or religious? Or ideological? Or is there any other basis?
    Or is it that there is no particular basis?
    Or is it that you don't know why you are a patriot?
    Or may be you are a patriot solely because of environmental influence?

    I must admit, I'm not really a patriot, prolly because I'm german :sweat_smile:. However I don't think patriotism is a bad thing...

    Ever heard of a principle called subsidiarity? It means, that a country should do little, only the really really important thing, and leave most of the stuff to decide to lower instances (like the state, then the region, then the city, then the community).

    Being similar brings groups together, not a bad thing either. We need a place where we belong, where we feel at home, know what to expect. Nations do not just suppress us and force us to conform to their image (at least in the west :shrug:) , they give us the infrastructure, the culture, everything we do often not even consciously realize we base our life on.

    People always think the rich west is so rich because it suppresses the rest of the world. To a degree that's true of course. Seems even more so in the age of globalism. One should note though, that there is something new in this age of globalism: the nations of today falter before the power of multi-national companies like google or amazon... Nations are losing power, because the politicians let themselves be bought. And not just the politicians, also the people themselves, the consumers always wanting the cheapest, and wanting all the luxury that this system can give.

    But before we come to the conclusion, lets look at another side: the development of the west, the riches of the west are not just built on the backs of others, they are also shared with the others. Yes, 100 years ago 90% of people lived by 1 $ a day in today's dollars. This is no longer the case. Despite the fact, that the population has multiplied, almost all of us are better off than our ancestors 100 years ago. Not just in the west, in most countries. Except the ones were corruption is not the exception but the rule... If you want some data on the incredible human progress we made get yourself a copy of Steven Pinker's Enlightenment Now.

    My point thus is, that being proud of your group and nation, and putting America first (for example), is a good thing. If you're not rich yourself, you have nothing you could share! And riches are always created – yes, especially with the scientific progress, creating riches is exactly the right term – locally, in working communities, well regulated (= little regulated but in the right places regulated) states. And if multi-national companies are not limited a bit, by nations becoming more powerful again, and by consumers buying less products on which stands "made in china" – that is made in a corrupt country that suppresses all of its citizens, not just the ones fighting for democracy – then you also cannot share.

    The people need more power, and this power needs to be taken from the powerful traders, those that buy nations... The subsidiarity principle needs to be empowered again, making the local community the place of the greatest power, then the city, then the state. Multi-National companies should be banned, lets put an end to globalism, an end to materialism, and of course lets fight communism too, which is centralism, which is dictatorship...

  • @pe7erpark3r thank you people finally a form that needs more than one sentence to answer a post or make a comment. You know it's fun to find new people to talk to but it's nice to have a conversation that takes more than one sentence to be a part of I enjoy intellectual conversation so thank you everybody. I have been told on these walls that I could be a bit long-winded. But when it's something intellectual it's worth the read👍

  • @Black-biler Appreciated, thank you.

  • @Matt_Aranha
    I like to think about patriotism as living in a house. Do you let your house fall apart simply because you could live wherever you want? Or do you try to maintain it?
    Regardless of how the world should be, this is the world that is and you should do what you can to make your country better.
    At least, that’s what I think.

  • @Nia-Rox But my "house", my home, is not my country. The world is my home. Of course any issues with my house need fixing, but if I don't look at the bigger picture and recognise that everybody's "house" is interconnected it won't matter what state of repair my own is in - when the others collapse my own will end up falling too.

  • @Matt_Aranha I'm truly glad I read this before I responded because I was pretty much going to say the same thing you were thanks for covering that 😎

  • @Matt_Aranha
    You can’t fix the big picture if you’re not going to stress the little details because it’s the little details that make the big picture. You wanna change the world? Start with your country.

  • @Nia-Rox and you can't change the world taking care of your little house pretending nothing past your property line is your problem...

  • @Nia-Rox Why do you think that not being a patriot means that you do nothing for your country? I aint a patriot, but I work, I don't steal, I ain't a murderer, I aint a politician. So am I who threatens to the economy and independence of my country?
    Why do you think that pride in your country itself can do something valuable at all?
    What so called patriotism can really bring except aggravation of relations between nations and countries?

  • @Nia-Rox I don't see why the two are incompatible and can't be worked on at the same time?

    What is the purpose of a country? Whose agenda do they serve?