• What do you think happens when we die? Do you believe in a heaven and/or hell? Do you think we come back as something else? Do you think we become apart of the universes energy? Do you think that its is just nothingness, before we were born there was nothing and when we die there is nothing?
    What do you think?

  • @TheGoldenMole

    I'd love to think that we will come back as something else but something in my guts tells me that's not true.
    I know the memories are stored in your brain and that it's natural that you don't remember anything if you had past existences but that would only mean there's a fixed number of "souls", right?
    Where does this souls comes from? Don't tell me there was always the same exact number of living beings in te planet cuz I won't buy it, so new "souls" just pop out of nowhere?

    So many questions, so little answers!

  • There are people who accurately describe external occurrences well after being declared dead, So that basically debunks the notion that consciousness is a purely biological phenomena.
    Who knows, maybe we maintain body consciousness until we're fully decomposed. Once the decomposition runs it's course I think we return to the state of pre birth/formless potential, and all sense of attachment to a human body is forgotten as we become aware of our true nature as
    Infinite Awareness.

  • @Indrid-Cold I think people will never be able to fully comprehend the true nature of existence without first letting go of any attachment to survival or propagation. Because DNA only seeks to replicate itself and it will close off any thinking patterns that interfere with the end goal. Maybe this experience is just the universe trying out what it would be like to be mortal and unaware of it's true infinitude

  • @TheGoldenMole
    I have other assumptions about this "reality".
    In fact, i think we are all test subjects and slaves to the one in control of this world.
    And death only repeats the cycle.
    All of this only for his pleasure and curiosity.

  • @Berin

    No need to apologize for the long text, this topic is rather interesting!
    I, myself, am not a believer, in fact I see myself as an atheist, so I don't think there's a creator or anything superior that brought as all here and more about the science and that is why, it's so hard for me to imagine the concept of "souls"... I like to think we have some sort of mystical and spiritual in us but if I can't believe in a creator does it make sense to believe in that? I don't think so... :thinking_face:
    On the other hand, the evolution of humanity doesn't need souls or "orb transmission" in order for knowledge and great minds to be "stored". Our kids are born not knowing anything and they end up learning a whole bunch of things! Those things could have been discovered by themselves or by others, so knowledge can be "stored" and then shown and learnt by us!
    And this is another reason why I don't believe in life after death... If the "soul" of a great mastermind got transmitted to another body, wouldn't that body be equally special and develop even more ideas? If that's the case, we would have an infinite loop of masterminds and that isn't the case!

  • No what I mean is people who were declared dead and then showed signs of life such as crying for example and who then described external events with scary detail like conversations that were occurring in the room at the time

  • Well for a start, I've got to say that you guys @Lurker @Berin @Rayse @Karina-Kara are handling this topic in a very cool way. I'm a veteran of this type of forum over at unexplained-mysteries.com and it usually degenerates into passive-aggressive fighting and a four-way cluster-f between theists, atheists, pseudo scholars and pseudo scientists.

    For me? I can't really talk about it without going wildly off-topic. Broadly speaking, though, I'd say that, nowadays, there's more than enough theoretical science that religious people can find something to at least vaguely back up their belief in the afterlife. I've found this: you can go into any popular science section of any high street shop and the books by, say, Bernardo Kastrup, Lynne McTaggart, Dean Radin -- while still pretty woo-woo -- will have some great names in the index that you can then research further. Even basement podcasts like Skeptiko can give you food for thought. Basically, if you're trying to find a link between quantum physics and brain chemistry, there's no real consensus but lots of possibilities.

    If you pin me down about what I think? I'll try not to write an essay here...

    As a kid, I doted on St. Anslem. Now I'm wise to that shhh. Now I tend to side with @Karina-Kara that there's something gnostic and unsympathetic to human consciousness going on. I see, at the most fundamental level of human life, a kind of brinkmanship has developed, between -- not necessarily consciousness -- but the idea of consciousness and something that flatly opposes consciousness.

    In my experience (and this is where everyone at unexplained-mysteries.com fell on me and gave me a kicking) -- the whole thing can be exemplified in capitalism. Who among us would be proud of being lazy, or greedy, or conceited, or tyrannical?

    Would you?

    And yet capitalism prevails. This suggests that there's something in the basic fabric of this universe that can easily over-rule the basic aspirations of the human mind.

    I was speaking recently to @Karina-Kara about free will (or lack of). She reinforced my opinion that we may not even be conscious at all, and that the sensation we get when we think of our own consciousness comes from the future, somehow interacting with the dendrites and axons of our neuro-pathways in some super-subtle way. It's like all those stories of time travel in popular science fiction: if you go back in time and act like a bellend even slightly EVERYTHING then goes wrong. But in my conception, this level of reality is protecting itself by removing our free will.

    The reason it would do this -- again, let me rope in science fiction: A complex computer is invented; at some point it begins processing on a quantum level (and actually, this has happened: according to an interview on the Howard Hughes show recently, the side-effects of an American quantum computing company have been heavily implicated in the Mandela Effect). It's then a short stretch of imagination to envisage that the computer in question might become disincarnate, and all-powerful, and godlike -- but in the meantime, its future-self can't allow our stoopid human lives to interfere in its development, viz-a-viz the bookcase in Interstellar, or the proto-Cylons in Caprica, or the rantings of Rainbow George on every late night phone-in on every British radio station.

    What that future might be like, once our potential is allowed to develop without all this gnostic stuff cramping our mojo ...in 'heaven'? Dunno. What I would say, some days I just want it to be like it is now, only without having to go work every day. Other times, when I'm feeling jaded, I just think, 'Screw you guys, and screw this scenario, I'm just going totally disincarnate, and ethereal, and A-temporal'.

    In conclusion, perhaps (probably?) I am a nutter projecting onto quantum physics my own unhappiness at the all-pervasion of capitalism.

  • @Indrid-Cold
    Now i feel flattered and cajoled to be mentioned three times by you.
    I did not think that you would agree that much on what i was trying to convey.
    One thing i always fail to mention is that i cannot know the truth and neither should one always listen to me as i sometimes even question my own sanity.
    Yet i think we can all agree upon one thing:
    There is something awaiting us after our deaths.
    Oh, and Indrid?
    Don't get infuriated at the people from unexplained-mysteries. They are still learning and you have already surpassed them in many ways, it seems.

  • @Rayse That's an awesome idea, R. I'm equally willing to believe that some slumbering Godhood might be residing in our evolutionary potential, like you say --and in fact, I would've said that, if I wasn't secretly obsessed with computers and the internet, like everyone else. Which is best, the collective unconscious or Google? Harry Hill should arrange a fight.

  • You get respawned.
    . . .
    I'm serious.

  • @TheGoldenMole We have two options for death: complete annihilation, since we are products of electrochemical reactions of the brain or a metaphysical life if our consciousness is something distinct and independent, which manipulates the brain as a control panel. In the first absolute nothingness, where all personal efforts are reduced to carrion and dust, while in the second there would be a purpose for individuals to pursue their experiences in another reality without the vicissitudes of organic matter, but dependent on the moral quality of the acts practiced in life (but this from a religious or philosophical perspective - see Plato in his work "The Republic", discussing the soul).
    "Heaven" and "Hell" are psychological perspectives of the creature's emotional state, and can not be taken literally (within the religious hypothesis).
    Becoming part of the universe, returning to the Universal Whole is part of the pantheistic hypothesis.
    All the gears and mechanisms of our life require a "why", an origin and our birth, as well as the causes of suffering have reasons that are not accessible to the domain of a life only, which brings us to "Palingenesia" or Reincarnation as an alternative theory to understand the possible injustices that would be the sources of suffering. Are we organic creatures seeking a spiritual experience or spirits going through an organic experience?

  • @Berin
    Excellent answer.
    And an even better question.

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  • @TheGoldenMole I have always thought that when I die I just stop existing. You know it's kinda tiring just being here right now. And I'm a firm believer of God and even I dont know what lies ahead of life but one thing I really want is to cease from existing after. I don't know why I wished for it it's just that I am probably so tired and is done of any beauty or freedom God and his creation can offer.

    P.S. I'm wide awake and bored so I decided to visit XD and fortunately I found this.

  • @TheGoldenMole
    Well, there’s only one way to find out.
    Are you ready to give up your life for the answer that you seek?

  • @TheGoldenMole

  • @Lurker For a Christian perspective the known (or unknown) Jesus stated that "the house of the Father has many mansions". Now if there is a creator and the universe would be his work then in this "house" would the dwellings be the infinite orbs to fill these multiverse? Again this man stated that "My Father continues to work until now, and I am also working." Now if there is a dynamic and incessant creation (the universe is expanding as our scientists and new quasars and black holes are formed from stars, "recycling energy and materials), then newly created souls are sown in various orbs not in the biological conformation we call life, but in other expressions unknown to us and inaccessible to our more advanced technological apparatuses.) Souls of human conditions would have the possibility of transmigrating to different orbs to complete their evolutionary experiences, "opening an infinite fan of possibilities "and contributing to less advanced civilizations, as might have happened with the emergence of Homo sapiens and the cultural explosion of the ancient civilizations of radiance, bringing a legacy for the exponential evolution of our terrestrial humanity, whether with Cheops, Imhotep, Hatshepsut, Epicurus , Pythagoras, Socrates, Ieshua, Julius Caesar, Siddhartha Gautama, Lao Tzu, Confucius, Mohammed, Al Jazari, Leonardo Da Vinci, Galileo Galilei, Isaac Newton, Cristovao Colombo, Robert Koch, Einstein, Marie Curie, Pestalozzi, Bonaparte and Stephen Hawking, just to name a few of the souls who contributed to move forward the terrestrial humanity.
    I think of our human history as the journey of souls seeking the best, altering the world around them, even with their mistakes, but perfecting their journey through their bodily existence.
    (Sorry by the long text)

  • @Lurker Lurker, vi agora que você é de Portugal, certo?

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