Without religion would people become more, less, or be equally morally corrupt?

[jamjam]

people have manipulated others with religion a lot in the past, E.g the church used to sell "tickets to heaven" for a hefty prize all the way back in the medieval age. I personally think people would become equally moral or more moral

[joetate]

Religion has nothing to do with it in my opinion. Bad, good, moral or not, its has to do with the person. Seen religious people do really evil things and seen saint like kindness from a non-believer. Total has to do with the soul of the man..or woman

[ODIN]

@joetate but some religions like islam prohibit bad behaviors and tries to make equality amongst people..nature of human is taking care of himself first and his family but religion puts equality and equity first. What u say abt this

[ODIN]

@reza-bastani i agree with u, most of peoples use religion "face" to oppress, or do something bad. And these kind of people are using religion in a bad way. I believe there is no true religion whch suports oppresion or anythn harmful to human nature. But peoples or human them selves change everythng accrding to what they wish or like. Only God can put equality on earth because most human beings are not perfct so they cant create something perfectly equal.

[Cocoxxjumbo V]

Equally. Religion is just a coping mechanism. If people want to do evil things, they will do them with or without religion. Religion doesn't cause violence or hatred, it's just an excuse for violence and hatred that already exists on a deeper level. If your religion tells you not to kill, but you are a killer at heart, you will kill and you will justify your actions regardless.

[ODIN]

@cocoxxjumbo-v some religions might wipe that hatred out of someones heart, and make them better persons, and i believe such religion exists, a killer might turn to a priest, a good priest and might even change the world, tho its something rare to happen. We are not that perfct to create the perfct system of life.

[ODIN]

@lasttrain94 i agree on you lasttrain, its only persons choices that reveals someones character, but i believe people change, if they get influenced by something. Religion can turn hate to love. Tho nowdays peoples use religion in irrelative way and now it looks like its the source of corruption. If religion could be used well i believe hate will never exist, bad morals and so on. As long as religion is the only perfct system of life made by God him self and not with some updates of humanbeing

[A Former User]

@ragnar-lothbrok
I personally find the suggestion that without having an invisible sky dady tell me that killing, rape and violence is bad, then i wouldn't know otherwise a highly insulting thing and i can't believe that anyone would feel ok with saying such ridiculous things:

And by the way atheist countries are statistically more peaceful, organised, have less discrimination and more like utopias than religious countries:

[Bushmurry]

@alwaysstranger Woot my country made number 4!

[A Former User]

@bushmurry where are you from?

[Bushmurry]

@alwaysstranger New Zealand

[A Former User]

@bushmurry oh cool. So you're in a mostly atheist country, wow lucky. I'm France so it's the same. Atheistic countries are always much better

[Bushmurry]

@alwaysstranger I don't know if the country is mostly atheist, but there are a lot of different religions and beliefs represented here... So it's probably more accurate to say that there isn't a dominant majority of one belief or another. My Grandfather was a Christian reverend but supported my beliefs too. I imagine France would be quite a melting pot!

[A Former User]

i was taught religious vales from a very small age,
and for me personally many a times it has helped me to control my self centered behaviour and self serving actions and also from committing mistakes that i would have really badly regretted later.

i guess im the person i am to a larger extend because of the values and beliefs that was instilled in me by my parents and moral islamic studies teachers.

see the reason why many hate religion is because of how they were taught,i have friends who absolutely hate anythng to be done in the name of religion because they were threatened from a small age that if they do this god will punish if they do that god will punish,the authority figures in their life taught them that god was a sadistic figure who will punish if u exercise free will even if u slip my mistake.

i was taught that moms love is only 0.000000000000001 % of Allahs love,i was taught that if i walk towards God he would run towards me,i was taught that no matter how many mistakes i commit and however bad it is and even if the whole world stands againstme,,if i repent sincerely and faithfully Allah will forgive me and love me even more,
i was taught that God loves those who commits mistakes and repents for it,i was taught that a good sincere prayer erases all worries and lightens all tensions. God is what you want him to be,i see him as a loved filled protector who has got my back in everything i do and who gets upset when i do something sinful,so it makes me want to be a good respectable human being who is responsible reliable and wont do any harm to anything or anyone purposefully. and would try ceaselessly to makeup for any harm if done to make them accept my apology.

in short my belief my faith helps me to be stronger kinder better empathic humble and to be filled with hope and trust.

not saying im a perfect human being..but my religious beliefs and faith has always always helped through everything that i have ever faced in this world that i thought would destroy me.

[A Former User]

@bushmurry said in Without religion would people become more, less, or be equally morally corrupt?:

@alwaysstranger I don't know if the country is mostly atheist, but there are a lot of different religions and beliefs represented here... So it's probably more accurate to say that there isn't a dominant majority of one belief or another. My Grandfather was a Christian reverend but supported my beliefs too. I imagine France would be quite a melting pot!

Yeah. There are a lot of religions here too but i think that about 75% of people are religiously unaffiliated and around 40% or 45% are atheist

[A Former User]

@khaleezi91 said in Without religion would people become more, less, or be equally morally corrupt?:

i was taught religious vales from a very small age,

Young age*

and for me personally many a times it has helped me to control my self centered behaviour and self serving actions and also from committing mistakes that i would have really badly regretted later.

Religion has also done the opposite in many cases. For example, all genital mutilation only happens in religious communities and circumcision also counts as genital mutilation since it is unnecessary, can create health issues and always decreases séxual pleasure.

i guess im the person i am to a larger extend because of the values and beliefs that was instilled in me by my parents and moral islamic studies teachers.

see the reason why many hate religion is because of how they were taught,i have friends who absolutely hate anythng to be done in the name of religion because they were threatened from a small age that if they do this god will punish if they do that god will punish,the authority figures in their life taught them that god was a sadistic figure who will punish if u exercise free will even if u slip my mistake.

"Moral islamic studies" are you talking about this:

Not all Muslims believe in islam at the same level. That's why not all muslims are violent. When i was a muslim i used to believe some stupid shit but i wasn't able to kill people even though I'm pretty sure if i staid in syria long enough i could have become a crazy murderer because of Islam. The reason why I'm cursing so much is because i have lost hope that you will doubt you're beliefs, because you (@Muslim ) don't believe in evolution even though it is a fact in science, so you basically don't believe in science. Even though you don't believe in science, you are saying that scientists have discovered that
1.ants are made of glass
2.that the moon was cut in 2
Even though they clearly haven't because if they did i would be able to find 1 single scientific article about it even though i couldn't, these things you're saying are crazy.
The quran says that the world was created in 6 days, which when compared to the fact of the big bang which shows how many quadrillions of years it took for the world to be created. It Is kind of like saying that it takes 30 minutes and not 9 months for a baby to be born.
Let me prove to you that islam is not a religion of peace:
Part 1. Violent verses:

“Fight against those who do not obey Allah and do not believe in Allah or the Last Day and do not forbid what has been forbidden by Allah and His messenger even if they are of the People of the Book until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” 9:29

"Fight against those who do not obey Allah and do not believe in Allah or the Last Day and do not forbid what has been forbidden by Allah and His messenger even though they are of the People of the Book until they pay the Jizya With willing submissions and feel themselves subdued" surah 9 verse 29

“When the sacred months have passed, then kill the Mushrikin wherever you find them. Capture them. Besiege them. Lie in wait for them in each and every ambush but if they repent, and perform the prayers, and give zacat then leave their way free.” surah 9 verse 5

“They ask you about fighting during the sacred months. Tell them, fighting therein is a great sin but a greater sin is to prevent mankind from following the way of Allah, to disbelieve in him.” surah 2 verse 217

“Kill them wherever you find them and drive them out from where they drove you out. Persecution is worse than slaughter.” Surah 2 verse 191

“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.” Surah 47 verse 4 (smite means cut, so this means that when you will meet the unbelievers, cut their necks)

“When your Lord revealed to the angels, ‘Truly I am with you. So, keep firm those who have believed. I will strike terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved. So, strike them at the necks and cut off their fingers.’” Surah 8 verse 12

“Oh you who believe, fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you and let them find harshness in you.” surah 9 verse 123

“Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. Those who follow Him are merciful to one another but harsh to the disbeliever.” Surah 48 verse 29

“They wish that you would reject faith as they have rejected faith unless that you would all be equal. So, don’t take protectors from them unless they emigrate in the way of Allah but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”Surah 4 verse 89

Part 2. Verses against equality

Sexist verses:

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has made one superior to the other and because they spend to support them from their means. Therefore, righteous women are obedient and they guard in the husband’s absence what Allah orders them to guard. And, as to those women from whom you fear disobedience, give them a warning, send them to separate beds, and beat them.” Surah 4 verse 34

"Women are mens "fields," and men can have sex with them whenever they want" Surah 2 verse 223

"A woman is worth one-half of a man, and men are above women" Surah 4 verse 11, Surah 2 verse 282 ans Surah 2 verse 228

"Muslim men may marry up to 4 wives, including prepubecent girls, and can own sex slaves" Surah 4 verse 3, Surah 65 verse 4 and surah 4 verse 24

"Women must cover themselves and be seen only by relatives, eunuchs, slaves and children who have not yet had sex with women" Surah 24 verse 31

Homophobic verses:

"And (We sent) Lot when he said to his people: What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you? Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people. And the answer of his people was no other than that they said: Turn them out of your town, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves). So We delivered him and his followers, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind. And We rained upon them a rain; consider then what was the end of the guilty." Surah 7 verses 80-84

"And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them. And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful."surah 4 verse 15-16

Now do you understand why I'm angry?
Because muslims say that the quran and islam are perfect but look at this.

And because research has shown (you can google this) that 88% of Muslims in Egypt and 62% of Muslims in Pakistan favor the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim religion.

Because islamic law (shariah) punishes Apostasy, Homoséxuality, Atheism and a lot of other things with DEATH

So basically a lot of Muslims want me dead.

So don't tell me don't attack islam when a lot of Muslims want to kill me.

If you don't agree with me then please just explain calmly and in a way i can understand

i was taught that moms love is only 0.000000000000001 % of Allahs love,i was taught that if i walk towards God he would run towards me,i was taught that no matter how many mistakes i commit and however bad it is and even if the whole world stands againstme,,if i repent sincerely and faithfully Allah will forgive me and love me even more,
i was taught that God loves those who commits mistakes and repents for it,i was taught that a good sincere prayer erases all worries and lightens all tensions. God is what you want him to be,i see him as a loved filled protector who has got my back in everything i do and who gets upset when i do something sinful,so it makes me want to be a good respectable human being who is responsible reliable and wont do any harm to anything or anyone purposefully. and would try ceaselessly to makeup for any harm if done to make them accept my apology.

This isn't moral. You can't say that this is a just system since forgiveness is a suspension of justice.

Example:

A guy rapes a women and repents and goes to heaven.

And sending ANYONE to hell is immoral if your god is truly omniscient(all knowing) because that would mean that he knew all the choices a person was going to make BEFORE he even created them so if god sent someone to hell that means that god created him just to put him in hell

INFACT let me go a step further. If a god exists then he os by nature immoral because:

in short my belief my faith helps me to be stronger kinder better empathic humble and to be filled with hope and trust.
not saying im a perfect human being..but my religious beliefs and faith has always always helped through everything that i have ever faced in this world that i thought would destroy me.

Good for you but I'd like to know something. Since faith can lead you to both wrong and right conclusions then is faith a reliable pathway to truth? Of course not so can you tell me what's the point of believing anything on faith

[A Former User]

@alwaysstranger
im not a religious debater and im not an extremist ,i havent byhearted quran.
but the verses u have mentioned is like taking random lines from a book and reading it together to form a concept that favours the ideas in your mind.
its said quran is book to learn and not just read, learning means to understand to comprehend ,to think to reflect etc..u did not mention under which circumstances those verse were sent down to earth or as a solution to what problems,u did not do research as to why those line were revealed to prophet.

secondly some of the verses u mentioned are not technically the right translations,u see im not an arab but it has come to my notice that few words they do have more than 2-3 meanings ,

im a muslim and u dont see me running behind you with a cross to crucify you,do you?most what people who call themselves muslims are doing around the world doesnot define islam,it just defines who they are not their religion.islam specifically says donot spread mischief in this world ,be respectful to elders and kind to the young and to be patient with women,donot harm women and children.i dont know the exact verses saying all these but im sure a well read syrian arab like you must have come across these lines when u read through quran,now how many muslims do you see following these simple rules?
men always wanted power over everything,its the psychology of men,there are more number of conquerers who r men than women ,if you are kind enough to read through how women were treated pre islamic era,u know islam was a form of blessing to women..

God has created you with intelligence,you are one of the superior species to other organisms in the world in terms of intelligence in terms of understanding in terms of thinking and free will.if God wanted slaves he could have easily done that,but instead he gave you the power to think and free will,which means its solely upon you on how ur character is,how ur behaviour is and how u act and react,quran and hadeeths are merely guides for us...a reference book when we want to know whats the best way to take care of a situation,and again that was a solution for problems in 1400's,so modify the solution and not the core essence to fit into the solution for problems in 20th centuary.

if u r someone who has watched games of thrones or outlanders or any series revolving around history,u will come to know how frequent child marraige was and how deterogating was the position of women and how sinful men were and how much safety women actually had while going anywhere alone or how some of them were treated even poorly than animals,so all the rules abt women who cant go anywhere without a mahram escorting her or how she has to cover her entire self or the system of marrying if u wanna have sex with her,the system of polygamy,all came in as an answer to the social problems that prevailed in the 1400's...which are also the problems in many many countries even now.

i live in a place comparitively has a very safe environment for females..so i go alone...i dress modestly non provoking but not entirely covered up...
my dad has only 1 wife thats my mom ..their parents also had one wife each..their parents parents also had one wife each.
my grandpas cousin has 2 wives because the first one was sterile she couldnt give birth so they mutually agreed on marrying another,because they wanted to have a baby who would carry on their family name.

now u might say there are things called adoption,in islam even if adoption is done u should notify the child that he or she is adopted..u cant grow them in oblivion,now anyone with a mind knows why thats the right thing to do..

u see i can go on and on and on the good reasons why i love islam and why i feel all the laws are valid ,,because for me a person who thinks and has free will islam is a guide book...to which i turn to when im in distress when i need an opinion or when i need a solution..and then i compare it with the centuary im in ...and i have a perfect solution for my problem.

the flaw in my debate is that i havent presented any facts..this is because im a medical student and i have lost touch with studying islam in depth..all i do now is pray 5 times pay zakah take fasting and try my best to do no harm to others physically or mentally.
so i dont think what i claim or say has the power to satisy you,so ill pray to Allah that you may be satisfied and all your doubts are cleared to you soon and that he may guide you into a better path.God bless!

[A Former User]

This post is deleted!

[Lucifer]

@khaleezi91 this is so much better than the rant you gave me on abortion topic!

[A Former User]

@lucifer_ actually it wasnt a rant meant for you..its was for that guy who said all woman had to do was 'JUST' deliver a baby and there is nothing related to love in that..
i got triggered..so u see i had to explain to him about all the fun women has to undergo after being pregnent and in the process of delivery in real language and also how anyone without love in their heart can subject themselves to do it..(coz he said women donot love)..hence that rant...sorry u got caught up in the middle.