@Katherine-k it was fine. I saw your point.

@Bonnibel "It starts as a bunch of choices, conscious or not" see, I don't agree with that. yes we make the choice to do the thing for the first time. but so does everyone. the difference is in our brain, on whether or not we become addicted

@Lazz I know

@Indrid-Cold said in The shroud of Turin: political standpoints as pro-life lobby This is the first time, that I've heard the term pro-life lobby. Seems a bit odd to me, for the term lobby usually denotes a group of people who try to further their own interests over other people's interests. Most pro-lifers however seem to be worried about the innocent children. Maybe I'm missinformed, but I haven't been able to make out a single monetary advantage for them. The pro-choice lobby on the other hand concists of people who make billions from killing the unborn, even selling body parts for research, and of the people who make billions from selling the pill (pro-choicers are for the pill, while pro-lifers are against it, since it might cause early abortions). And then of course they consist of all the people who want to be able to get rid of a baby that doesn't come at the right moment... Did you know that 80% of all abortions (at least in the west) are done because the baby is just inconvenient right now? Also since we are talking about souls here already: a soul seems to be able to live on after death, that is without a body. If a soul needs no body, it certainly does not need a functioning brain or a heartbeat. So if a baby has a soul, then certainly from the moment of conception on...