Without religion would people become more, less, or be equally morally corrupt?


  • Gamers

    @alwaysstranger New Zealand



  • @bushmurry oh cool. So you're in a mostly atheist country, wow lucky. I'm France so it's the same. Atheistic countries are always much better


  • Gamers

    @alwaysstranger I don't know if the country is mostly atheist, but there are a lot of different religions and beliefs represented here... So it's probably more accurate to say that there isn't a dominant majority of one belief or another. My Grandfather was a Christian reverend but supported my beliefs too. I imagine France would be quite a melting pot!



  • i was taught religious vales from a very small age,
    and for me personally many a times it has helped me to control my self centered behaviour and self serving actions and also from committing mistakes that i would have really badly regretted later.

    i guess im the person i am to a larger extend because of the values and beliefs that was instilled in me by my parents and moral islamic studies teachers.

    see the reason why many hate religion is because of how they were taught,i have friends who absolutely hate anythng to be done in the name of religion because they were threatened from a small age that if they do this god will punish if they do that god will punish,the authority figures in their life taught them that god was a sadistic figure who will punish if u exercise free will even if u slip my mistake.

    i was taught that moms love is only 0.000000000000001 % of Allahs love,i was taught that if i walk towards God he would run towards me,i was taught that no matter how many mistakes i commit and however bad it is and even if the whole world stands againstme,,if i repent sincerely and faithfully Allah will forgive me and love me even more,
    i was taught that God loves those who commits mistakes and repents for it,i was taught that a good sincere prayer erases all worries and lightens all tensions. God is what you want him to be,i see him as a loved filled protector who has got my back in everything i do and who gets upset when i do something sinful,so it makes me want to be a good respectable human being who is responsible reliable and wont do any harm to anything or anyone purposefully. and would try ceaselessly to makeup for any harm if done to make them accept my apology.

    in short my belief my faith helps me to be stronger kinder better empathic humble and to be filled with hope and trust.

    not saying im a perfect human being..but my religious beliefs and faith has always always helped through everything that i have ever faced in this world that i thought would destroy me.



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  • Global Moderator

    @khaleezi91 this is so much better than the rant you gave me on abortion topic!



  • @khaleezi91 said in Without religion would people become more, less, or be equally morally corrupt?:

    @alwaysstranger
    im not a religious debater and im not an extremist ,i havent byhearted quran.
    but the verses u have mentioned is like taking random lines from a book and reading it together to form a concept that favours the ideas in your mind.
    its said quran is book to learn and not just read, learning means to understand to comprehend ,to think to reflect etc..u did not mention under which circumstances those verse were sent down to earth or as a solution to what problems,u did not do research as to why those line were revealed to prophet.

    I'm an ex-muslim and i am not gonna take into consideration the suggestion that i took those quotes out of context. Get your quran and check for yourself. If you can't demonstrate that they're taken out of context then don't say that they are because i know full well that they are not taken out of context. Yes the quran says to read but as i have shown it also says to kill and it says that a lot of times.

    secondly some of the verses u mentioned are not technically the right translations,u see im not an arab but it has come to my notice that few words they do have more than 2-3 meanings ,

    Well good luck because i speak and read fluent Arabic since I'm Palestinian and was born in Syria.

    im a muslim and u dont see me running behind you with a cross to crucify you,do you?

    No but how does that change anything. If you are a true Muslim who agrees with the islamic law (Shariah) then in your view i should be killed and if you don't agree with the Shariah then you aren't in place to ne defending your religion since you don't even agree with it fully

    most what people who call themselves muslims are doing around the world doesnot define islam,it just defines who they are not their religion.islam specifically says donot spread mischief in this world ,be respectful to elders and kind to the young and to be patient with women,donot harm women and children.

    What about the verse i mentioned that says you should beat disobedient women

    i dont know the exact verses saying all these but im sure a well read syrian arab like you must have come across these lines when u read through quran,now how many muslims do you see following these simple rules?

    Many but you have to be pretty dolusional to only see those verses and not see all the verses i mentioned. My parents are muslim and they're pretty chill but my mom doesn't agree that a man should be able to have 4 wives and that a woman shouldn't along with a lot of other things in the quran and since they haven't followed the clear instructions of the shariah to kill apostates like me, i can say that they shouldn't be representing islam either since they don't agree with a lot of things in the quran

    men always wanted power over everything,its the psychology of men,there are more number of conquerers who r men than women ,if you are kind enough to read through how women were treated pre islamic era,u know islam was a form of blessing to women..

    You have to be fucking kidding me. The Shariah clearly says that women should cover themselves, that they are obliged to be accompanied by a man if they want to do any work, that a women should inherit half that of a man, you also have the right to beat them if they are disobedient and that they are unclean and unholy when they go through the natural biological processes of menstruation and that women are ignorant and that a womens testimony is worth half of a man's testimony in court.

    God has created you with intelligence,you are one of the superior species to other organisms in the world in terms of intelligence in terms of understanding in terms of thinking and free will.

    1st god didn't create humans. Why do you think so? Humans evolved from other species

    2nd why are humans suddenly so special

    3rd free will doesn't exist.

    I'll just screenshot a mini debate i had on YouTube to explain why

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    if God wanted slaves he could have easily done that,but instead he gave you the power to think and free will,which means its solely upon you on how ur character is

    As i have already explained, free will is an illusion but did i mention that islam supports slavery and having sex slaves :) wanna see the verses?

    how ur behaviour is and how u act and react,quran and hadeeths are merely guides for us...a reference book when we want to know whats the best way to take care of a situation

    The hadith and quran instruct muslims to kill homosexuals and apostates like me. Great advice 10/10

    and again that was a solution for problems in 1400's,so modify the solution and not the core essence to fit into the solution for problems in 20th centuary.

    You're welcome to think so but sadly it isn't like a group of shaikhs are deciding which verses are modern or not and all Muslims take their word for it. If god is all knowing then he should've predicted the future and wrote down in the quran the time span of the verses's taken in consideration

    if u r someone who has watched games of thrones or outlanders or any series revolving around history,u will come to know how frequent child marraige was and how deterogating was the position of women and how sinful men were and how much safety women actually had while going anywhere alone or how some of them were treated even poorly than animals,so all the rules abt women who cant go anywhere without a mahram escorting her or how she has to cover her entire self or the system of marrying if u wanna have sex with her,the system of polygamy,all came in as an answer to the social problems that prevailed in the 1400's...which are also the problems in many many countries even now.

    1st Muhammad fucking a 9 year old isn't excusable by saying that the times and culture were different. Couldn't god tell him that fucking a 9 year old is a bad idea? And child marriage is allowed by the shariah because Muhammad fucked a 9 year old. Oh fuck this

    2nd No!!! There isn't any country where a women should be obliged to be accompanied by a mahram everywhere when she wants to do business. For example, Saudi Arabia is cancer and don't try to justify what they do to women

    i live in a place comparitively has a very safe environment for females..so i go alone...i dress modestly non provoking but not entirely covered up...
    my dad has only 1 wife thats my mom ..their parents also had one wife each..their parents parents also had one wife each.
    my grandpas cousin has 2 wives because the first one was sterile she couldnt give birth so they mutually agreed on marrying another,because they wanted to have a baby who would carry on their family name.

    Yeah but why can'ta women have multiple husbands. Answer:Sexism

    now u might say there are things called adoption,in islam even if adoption is done u should notify the child that he or she is adopted..u cant grow them in oblivion,now anyone with a mind knows why thats the right thing to do..

    I agree

    u see i can go on and on and on the good reasons why i love islam and why i feel all the laws are valid ,,because for me a person who thinks and has free will islam is a guide book...to which i turn to when im in distress when i need an opinion or when i need a solution..and then i compare it with the centuary im in ...and i have a perfect solution for my problem.

    1st free will doesn't exist as i have already explained

    2nd "the good reasons why i love islam and why i feel all the laws are valid " cool. So you agree that apostates and homosexuals should be killed. 10/10

    the flaw in my debate is that i havent presented any facts..this is because im a medical student and i have lost touch with studying islam in depth..all i do now is pray 5 times pay zakah take fasting and try my best to do no harm to others physically or mentally.

    Very good. Keep it up.

    so i dont think what i claim or say has the power to satisy you,so ill pray to Allah that you may be satisfied and all your doubts are cleared to you soon and that he may guide you into a better path.God bless!

    Ok. I don't believe that there's a god but if he exists then he's welcome to prove it to me



  • @alwaysstranger i really would like to explain how very wrong each of ur statement is but like you said i dont have to defend my religion....so here it .. to u ur atheism and to me my islam.....so think whatever u want do whatever u want spread whatever u want and be whatever u want...lets hope you achieve peace by that...thank you!



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  • @alwaysstranger please dont..
    firstly u dont debate,u fight ..u swear..and u attack ur opponent,thats called immaturity and childishness...and i have no intrest in entertaining that sort of behaviours.

    secondly i dont understand ur need to prove that u r right,did i ever once say a word against u being atheist..because i dont give a dime abt what u r or what u follow or whatever that is you...but i have seen you really drawing people in to religious debates..why is that u need to constantly fight with people on what they believe..didnt ur parents approve ur conversion or do u subconsciously hate that u r an atheist and is now in constant search of people to proove u wrong??. trust me when i say im not the person for that because im not a debater and i have limited knowledge of islam and thirdly i dont have the time to sit and find stuffs and proove u wrong and fourthly i dont think u r worth my time...because no matter what i say ,all u care is about the winning.not abt really understanding what i am saying..because if u did..u would stop after reading my previous comments to u.

    there are 2 people i do everything to avoid..1)idiotic minds and 2)those minds who think they know it all and want to show off but in reality they are just shells and no matter how much u say them i dont care they dont get out of ur face..because they feed on the satisfaction they get by destroying others and winning the fights even if they are wrong they are wrong .

    so if u have taken up atheist form of life...try to stick to it...without looking onto others for approval and acceptance...and without fighting with anyone and everyone who doesnt follow you or agree with you.

    im not a fighter and i dont debate ...i express my views..and if there is someone who doesnt not agree with it..i learn to agree to disagree..hence the saying for you what u believe and for me what i believe.

    you constantly kept saying about how islam asks to kill people...did u know what prophet and his companions had to go through when they were makkah...how much torture they had to endure before migrating in hiding into medina..and even after coming into medina..there were many people who had taken oath to destroy islam and its followers..so when islam won the battles and they established their territories..they wanted the people in those territories to follow islam and if not to provide fine to the government and prove their allegiance...and thats a sound decision..and you would have understood it if u had a sound mind to properly think and not discard everything and anything that goes even close to disagreeing with you.

    whatever ur problem is find a therapist and get help. or find a good debater on religious matters.a scholar or a well educated islamic leader...im not a match for u.and most importantly i dont like to fight.,...so goodbye and peace be upon you..



  • OK. I'm done with the reply

    @khaleezi91 said in Without religion would people become more, less, or be equally morally corrupt?:

    @alwaysstranger i really would like to explain how very wrong each of ur statement is but like you said i dont have to defend my religion

    I said that you are not really in a place to defend your religion if you do not agree with the shariah (for example, that homosexuals, apostates and atheists should be killed) and other bad things because that means that you would be depending your religion even though you too don't agree with it

    ....so here it .. to u ur atheism and to me my islam.....so think whatever u want do whatever u want spread whatever u want and be whatever u want...lets hope you achieve peace by that...thank you!

    Thank you too. Have a good day :)



  • OH SHIT. I didn't see that you made a big ass reply to my reply

    @khaleezi91 said in Without religion would people become more, less, or be equally morally corrupt?:

    @alwaysstranger please dont..
    firstly u dont debate,u fight ..u swear..and u attack ur opponent,thats called immaturity and childishness...and i have no intrest in entertaining that sort of behaviours.

    Your lack of entertaining such behaviour is by itself entertainment

    secondly i dont understand ur need to prove that u r right, did i ever once say a word against u being atheist..because i dont give a dime abt what u r or what u follow or whatever that is you...but i have seen you really drawing people in to religious debates..why is that u need to constantly fight with people on what they believe..didnt ur parents approve ur conversion or do u subconsciously hate that u r an atheist and is now in constant search of people to proove u wrong??.

    1st you do have to realise that I'm just talking about the topic. If you don't like this topic then go to a different topic and don't get annoyed that I'm talking about this topic

    2nd i like debating ppl to feel a sense of superiority when i destroy their arguments with logic not because I'm a .... what even were you tryin' to say? How would i subconsciously hate being an atheist? Do you know how awesome not being stupid enough to believe in iron age fairy tales is?

    trust me when i say im not the person for that because im not a debater and i have limited knowledge of islam and thirdly i dont have the time to sit and find stuffs and proove u wrong and fourthly i dont think u r worth my time

    Cool, then go find another topic. There are plenty.

    ...because no matter what i say ,all u care is about the winning.not abt really understanding what i am saying..because if u did..u would stop after reading my previous comments to u.

    I understand it better than you since I'm debating you about islam and you are saying that you don't know enough about islam to debate me. Bye bye, go find a topic you like

    there are 2 people i do everything to avoid..1)idiotic minds and 2)those minds who think they know it all and want to show off but in reality they are just shells and no matter how much u say them i dont care they dont get out of ur face..because they feed on the satisfaction they get by destroying others and winning the fights even if they are wrong they are wrong .

    Why are you talking in 3rd person

    Let's turn what you said into 2nd person.

    "1)you are an idiotic mind"

    K

    "2)you think that you know it all and want to show off but in reality you are just a shell and no matter how much i tell you that i dont care you dont get out of my face..because you feed on the satisfaction you get by destroying others and winning the fights even if you are wrong you are wrong ."

    1st "you think that you know it all" NO. I don't think that i know it all. Infact

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    2nd "no matter how much i tell you that i dont care you dont get out of my face.." you do realise that I'm talking about the topic in hand and i have told you that you are welcome to leave and find another topic you like

    3rd"because you feed on the satisfaction you get by destroying others and winning the fights even if you are wrong you are wrong" i understand what you say better than you since i know more about islam than you and yes of course i get satisfaction from winning a debate, duh. But you saying that I'm wrong without explaining why is pointless

    so if u have taken up atheist form of life...try to stick to it...without looking onto others for approval and acceptance...and without fighting with anyone and everyone who doesnt follow you or agree with you.

    1st I'm talking about the topic in hand and you are welcome to leave

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    im not a fighter and i dont debate ...

    This is easily noticeable

    i express my views..and if there is someone who doesnt not agree with it..i learn to agree to disagree..hence the saying for you what u believe and for me what i believe.

    There is also the law of killing apostates and atheists but chose whatever you want

    you constantly kept saying about how islam asks to kill people...

    Because it's true

    did u know what prophet and his companions had to go through when they were makkah...how much torture they had to endure before migrating in hiding into medina..and even after coming into medina..there were many people who had taken oath to destroy islam and its followers..so when islam won the battles and they established their territories..they wanted the people in those territories to follow islam and if not to provide fine to the government and prove their allegiance...and thats a sound decision..and you would have understood it if u had a sound mind to properly think and not discard everything and anything that goes even close to disagreeing with you.

    1st don't make it look like they were only trying to defend themselves, they violently killed people in war to conquer

    2nd No. Making ppl pay a tax for not believing in your religion isn't ok and you have to remember that in the verse it doesn't only say that you should pay a tax, it also says that you should admit that islam is better than your religion.

    whatever ur problem is find a therapist and get help.

    So you believe that Muhammad flew to heaven on a winged horse and I'm the one that needs a therapist

    or find a good debater on religious matters.a scholar or a well educated islamic leader...im not a match for u.and most importantly i dont like to fight.,...so goodbye and peace be upon you..

    When going through the process of realising that islam is wrong and cancerous i listened to millions of Islamic scholars on youtube and stuff and their attempts to answer some questions are despicable, i also watched a lot of debates between islamic scholars and other ppl.



  • If you don't like this topic then i suggest that you leave and find a topic you like



  • @alwaysstranger read the topic ..they asked a question and i expressed my views regarding the influence of religion in keeping people away from corruption..if u wanna express ur views u should express it to the post ..not on my comment or as a reply to my comment..no one invited u to reply to me.show me even one place where i have asked u for ur opinion on any matter.....so stick to what u r supposed to do..that is comment ur views about the post to the posted person..in this case that would be ragnar lothbrok....

    i like the topic i just dont like having a conversation with people like you.



  • @khaleezi91 said in Without religion would people become more, less, or be equally morally corrupt?:

    @alwaysstranger read the topic ..they asked a question and i expressed my views regarding the influence of religion in keeping people away from corruption..if u wanna express ur views u should express it to the post ..not on my comment or as a reply to my comment..no one invited u to reply to me....so stick what u r supposed to do..that is comment ur views about the post to the posted person..in this case that would be ragnar lothbrok....

    HEY. We both are talking about the same topic aren't we, if you say something about the topic and i disagree then I'll quote your post and give my thoughts on your thoughts so Ragnar or whoever is seeing this topic will view them.

    i like the topic i just dont like having a conversation with people like you.

    well leave the topic if you think we can have separate conversations and not comment on each others opinions then because if i quoted what you said and expressed why i disagree with it then you're free to ignore me but i won't hold myself back from expressing my thoughts, hell no!


  • Global Moderator

    OH SHIT. I didn't see that you made a big ass reply to my reply

    That's a first..


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